August 21, 2026 – SuperHeroes Lisa Somers and Third Successful Career Lawrence Dunning

00:01 Intro 1: In the AM, radio network, broadcasting from AM and FM stations around the country. Welcome to the Small Business Administration Award-winning School for Startups Radio, while we talk all things small business and entrepreneurship. Now, here is your host, the guy that believes anyone can be a successful entrepreneur, because entrepreneurship is not about creativity, risk or passion, Jim Beach.

00:18 JIM BEACH: Hello, everyone, welcome to another exciting edition of School for Startups Radio. Sure to appreciate you being with us and telling your friends and paying your monthly dues and all of those things that you need to be doing. Thank you so much. Got a fantastic show for you today. First up, Lisa Somers is with us. She is with Marketplace Superheroes. They are an Amazon consulting firm teaching you how to build an Amazon business. And she is amazing. We haven’t talked about Amazon as a you know, entrepreneurial path. Oh gosh, I don’t remember the last time, two, 3 years, but it is an amazing one.

00:51 JIM BEACH: My wife made a ton of money doing this, and it’s just a great, great idea for anything you want to do. And so I just, I love what Lisa shares. She also looks at passion in a way that I had not thought of before, and I spend a lot of time thinking about passion because I am fascinated with entrepreneurial passion. Again, I don’t believe in it. I think that you should like other things more than being an entrepreneur. It shouldn’t be the number one thing in your life, your business. It should be number 5 or 6 or something like that.

01:22 JIM BEACH: And she suggests that her passion is helping other people succeed with their passions, which is a fascinating take on it, and something I have not considered, and I’ll have to add that to my book on passion, which is coming out soon called entrepreneurship is not about creativity, risk or passion, very good guess. Anyway, I was super impressed about that and excited to talk about Amazon, because we haven’t talked about that in a long time. And then Lawrence Dunning is with us.

01:47 JIM BEACH: He is one of the superheroes that she was just, or that, uh, Lisa is company is named after, an amazing set trio of careers, including getting the hell beat out of him and beat up other people as a martial arts guy in the MMA world and is now doing real estate as a forgotten class and we’ll explain why it’s a forgotten class for him and why he coming from where he did. It makes sense. Anyway, a great take from on Chicago too. We talk a lot about business in Chicago, entrepreneurship there. So anyone from Chicago is the one to enjoy the update. We will get started in a second.

02:21 JIM BEACH: Thanks for being with us.

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02:54 JIM BEACH: We are back and again. Thank you so very much for being with us. So a little bit of background for this interview years ago, 10 years ago. We spent a lot of time on the show, talking about building an Amazon business. My wife started an Amazon business. She started with some really interesting products, horse, cleaning, equipment, like brushes for horse, and we also had a non, an organic, gluten-free, sexual lubricant that if you were gluten sensitive, you could use this sex lube and sold a bunch of that kind of stuff, that kind of stuff, a bunch of that lube. And anyway, had a very successful Amazon business.

03:30 JIM BEACH: She got promoted and we had another kid and so we stopped doing it. But we’ve had a lot of people talk about Amazon businesses. I think it’s a great way to become an entrepreneur because there’s so many manuals and learning centers and all of that. Our guest today is going to give us an update on all of the Amazon selling. I haven’t talked about it in years and is running an incredible education platform where you could learn to have that success. Please welcome Lisa Somers to the show. She is the CEO of Marketplace Superheroes.

04:01 JIM BEACH: It’s an online education and training company that helps entrepreneurs grow businesses selling physical products through Amazon and other international marketplaces. This is interesting. Her brother started the company in Ireland, and she eventually took over and now leads this as the CEO from Barcelona, and her brother still lives in Ireland, and they run the business together internationally and online. They have done some $35 million in revenue, teaching people to be successful, and I can’t wait to hear the story. Lisa, welcome to the show. How you doing?

04:30 LISA SOMERS: I’m doing very well, thank you. Really delighted to be here today.

04:34 JIM BEACH: So how big is Marketplace Superheroes now? How big a company is it? 35 million? Is that during the life of the business?

04:41 LISA SOMERS: Yes, that’s during the life of the business. As you can imagine, the first few years were a little rocky, right? Nobody knew who we were, we’re just getting started. We were these random people from Ireland that you’d never heard of trying to teach you how to sell online. And so that’s through the lifetime in the business. But since then, we have thousands of students have gone through our programs and you mentioned, we teach Amazon. We also teach people how to sell on Whatnot, which we can certainly get into today. It’s very, very exciting new platform.

05:12 LISA SOMERS: So that was kind of how we started in the world of Amazon and private labels specifically, like importing things from China. Then we kind of, as the years went on. We added in Amazon wholesale, which is more working with domestic suppliers, say in the US or the UK. And now more recently, actually this year, we’ve added in just this brand new market, which is a platform called Whatnot. It’s done $$11 billion in sales in the last year, but it’s still kind of a baby and not that many people know about it. It’s a live social selling platform.

05:42 LISA SOMERS: And we’ve actually been teaching people how to sell Pokemon cards on there, would you believe? So very, very random indeed, but ultimately Marketplace Superheroes has been around that length of time and the entire time just teaching people how to start an income online if they’re a beginner and they don’t have, you know, expert knowledge or they don’t want to be a content creator. They don’t want to go and, you know, dance on TikTok.

06:05 JIM BEACH: Okay, very interesting. So on your LinkedIn page, Lisa, your picture, like the picture, not your profile picture, but the background picture has a company photograph. Is that what I’m guessing?

06:15 LISA SOMERS: That was actually from a bootcamp that we run for clients, yes.

06:19 JIM BEACH: Right. Okay. So how many employees are there now at the Superheroes?

06:23 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, we have a team of about 25 people. We used to have a much bigger team. I think at one point we had 50 people because we used to own a freight company as well back when we did private label. We would actually ship products for our clients. So obviously we needed warehouse staff and we exited that business a few years ago, but now we’re much leaner and obviously with AI and all the things, you don’t need as many people in order to run an online business. So we still keep like things are really important to me. Like, I want a human doing my customer support, right?

06:56 LISA SOMERS: That’s really important to me. So, yes.

06:59 JIM BEACH: Oh, God, I got into USAA yesterday, the banking for veterans. My daddy was a veteran, so I got included. And worst customer service ever. Because of the endless telephone tree. I’m sorry, Lisa, I just had to vent. All right. Just amazing. What a cluster. You have a lot to go through. There’s ton of follow-up stories through that. So what are you doing now in annual revenue? A million, two, three.

07:21 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, we’re about 4 at the moment. And, you know, obviously that we boomed during COVID was our big growth in our company because obviously a lot of people lost their jobs or they wanted to do something to have more security outside of just having one income stream, which obviously, you know, I think in 2026, most of us know now that just having one income stream is quite risky, right? One is the worst number in business. So we boomed during that time and since then, you know, we, the growth calmed down slightly, but we’ve been, we’ve been doing around that each year.

07:53 JIM BEACH: I love what you say about income streams. I believe that you have to have multiple ways to make money in life. And, you know, just think how risky it is if you work for Coca-Cola as that, and you make $300,000 a year and you have $300,000 a year of expenses, and then all of a sudden they decide to downsize, right size, outsource your department, and you get cut for no reason of your own, and now you have $300,000 expenses. You have to find a $300,000 job, which is not easy. So.

08:23 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, 100%. And I think, you know, the stress of that and the pressure is something that people just kind of want to avoid. And so if you can have several smaller things that are all generating you a healthy income each month and you’re also learning as well. I think we don’t account for that enough, right? You’re learning skills that can continue to make you money. Like when I started, I was training as a psychologist. Like I had 0 entrepreneurial. I organized a battle of the bands once, I think, that was the extent of my entrepreneurial tendencies. And I didn’t know any of this stuff.

08:56 LISA SOMERS: And then I began reading books and learning and educating myself. And I feel like now if my business were to shut down tomorrow, like I know I would be absolutely fine. And I think that is actually, that’s the bigger thing and the better thing, right? Of like knowing that you have skills that can enable you to go and start another business and to do something else if your circumstances change. I think that is the most valuable thing to me about the journey kind of I’ve been on and entrepreneurship in general.

09:25 JIM BEACH: Very, very well said. I love it. I love the attitude. Yes. And you know that guy who gets laid off from Coca-Cola is so scared because he doesn’t have that mentality that you just expressed. Oh, I can just start over. I know how to do it. Not the end of the world. I love it. I love it. So, Are your main products, learning videos, then I signed up for a $5000 class or $500, you know, something dollar class, and is that the main product?

09:52 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, so the main business is um, we sell via webinars. And then you would go to what I would call a mid-ticket program, right? So it’s usually somewhere between $600 to $2000 depending on what your what level you’re coming in at. And then we do have other offers sort of at the back of the business that are more coaching. And for example, with the Pokemon card offer I told you about, like we’ll connect you with our suppliers that supply our cards for us and things like that. So it’s a little bit more, I wouldn’t say done for you. You’ve still got to put in the work.

10:26 LISA SOMERS: We’re big believers in like this whole passive income thing, unless you have, you know, hundreds of thousands lying around in capital, it’s very difficult to actually make true passive income. So I don’t even, you know, I don’t say that to our clients. I’m saying you’re coming in, you’re going to put some effort in and some time in, but, you know, the return on that is that you learn a new skill, you can make money doing it, and a lot of our business models are actually quite fun. You know what I mean? It’s like, they’re not they’re not depressing, boring, miserable things you’re doing with your time.

10:59 LISA SOMERS: And so, um, yeah, it’s it’s a educational model for us as well. I think a big shift in the online market. Certainly, when it comes to courses and all of that. I think the days of just having, you know, video modules and nothing else are kind of over. Like we do a lot of group coaching. We’ve really good community. We give people different tools that we’ve built. Speed them up. So there’s a lot of that. I think, you know, we could probably have a whole marketing conversation on that another day.

11:28 LISA SOMERS: But, um, yeah, it’s, there’s kind of more to it now, really, in order to sell successfully than to just have, Oh, it’s a course, you just do it yourself and off you go, you know.

11:39 JIM BEACH: Uh, you know, 10 years ago it seemed that this was a lot easier. The Amazon wasn’t selling as much themselves. How do you find products now that are new and how do I break in selling a new product when everything is already on Amazon?

11:53 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, sure. Good question. So with our Amazon model, specifically, the main model we actually teach now is working with brands who are already selling on Amazon, because like you said, right, you can go on private label a spatula, but there’s a 1000000 spatulas on Amazon already, and like your one standing out is going to be quite difficult. And that’s not to say that private label doesn’t work. I know plenty of people do that successfully. We did it successfully for many years. But the easiest model certainly for people who are not already selling on there is to learn how to be what I would call like a brand partner.

12:27 LISA SOMERS: So you go to a brand who already has a product. They’re already selling well or maybe they’re not selling as well as they want to be on Amazon specifically. So you can go to them and then we kind of teach beginners like simple things, you can do like improving their listing, making sure, you know, that their PPC is set up, like their pay-per-click advertising, that kind of thing. And we actually, at the moment, have an incredible educator in our business named Mike, who we’re kind of like a mini publishing company. So I never claim to be an Amazon expert myself.

12:59 LISA SOMERS: What we do is we bring in the best of the best. My brother Stephen did sell on Amazon for many, many years. He built a 7 figure income stream on Amazon, but now we’re at a point where our focus is bringing the best people who are doing this every single day in their own business and allowing them to educate our students, but that’s the main model we teach. We call it the amplify model. So you’re not trying to invent a product or, you know, figure out what to sell. It’s people who are already selling on there, who just need help growing.

13:31 LISA SOMERS: And that’s kind of a much easier entry point, I would say, for a lot of people. We also do teach a wholesale model too, um, where you would ship from domestic suppliers, products like Crayola products, um, you know, certain uh, Fisher-Price thing, like different products like that, and then you can kind of take a slice of what Amazon has that listed for because there’s a thing on Amazon called the buy box. So it rotates sellers throughout the day. And basically you’re kind of grabbing a slice of the sales. But for me, I would say the best and easiest model is the amplify model. And then with our Whatnot education.

14:05 LISA SOMERS: That’s even easier because you can, with that model, you can be making sales in as little as 7 days, which I would never be able to say about Amazon. It takes time to get up and running. You know, especially if you’re selling a product yourself, you have to get a seller account, you got to do all these things, but with Whatnot, specifically, you can be up and running basically overnight, you can buy your products, retail. It’s very quick, you know?

14:31 JIM BEACH: Start with what the hell is, Whatnot. I think a lot of us have not heard of Whatnot.

14:36 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, and I’m I’m delighted to be sharing it with you because I hadn’t heard of it either. And a guy on our team came to us.

14:42 JIM BEACH: Platform mainly, or?

14:45 LISA SOMERS: It’s not, it’s actually huge in the US. It’s huge in the US, Canada, UK. Kind of the major marketplaces that you would think of. It’s not available in every country just yet, but basically what it is. If you think of some sort of combination of like QVC, like a shopping network, Instagram and Tinder, that’s how I would describe it, right? So basically people, yeah, because when you go into, when you go into Whatnot, you’re basically watching live streams of people selling products, okay? So you go on there, people are selling products and if you want to buy the product, you swipe to bid on the item.

15:19 LISA SOMERS: So that’s how it works. It’s like a live auction marketplace. So it’s very entertaining, which kind of feeds into the Instagram part of it. It’s a shopping network, kind of like QVC, right? And then Tinder is the swiping bit. So that’s kind of how I explain it to people, but it’s like, it’s sort of the 2026 of online shopping, I would say.

15:32 JIM BEACH: Swipe, the price goes up?

15:41 LISA SOMERS: That’s right. Yeah.

15:42 JIM BEACH: So you set a starting bid for whatever product you are selling, and then people swipe and, as they swipe, the price goes up?

15:42 LISA SOMERS: We actually do five-second auctions when we sell there. It sounds insane, but they are very quick because people just swipe and swipe, and whoever wins gets the product.

16:01 JIM BEACH: But you just sold one, right? You have sold one.

16:04 LISA SOMERS: So with us, we teach Pokemon.

16:05 JIM BEACH: [Unclear amount.] Help me there.

16:08 LISA SOMERS: Yeah. So we teach a thing called 60-second product loops, right? So what we do is you’re, in our case, we’re selling Pokemon cards. Right? You hold up the pack and then you say, all right, we’re going to start the bidding and people start bidding. Your auction lasts 5 seconds. You show them what’s in the pack, and then you go again, right? So you’re constantly repeating, repeating, repeating, and you sell, you can sell a lot of packs. And just to say we, most of the people that we teach how to do this, have never even heard of Pokemon. They’ve never heard of Whatnot.

16:40 LISA SOMERS: We have a 65-year-old lady who’s done our program. She’s made over 50 grand in her first 4 months doing this. Like, it’s absolutely insane. And Josh on our team, the guy who brought it to us, he’s done $400,000 in his first, I think, 8 or 9 months of doing it. So the opportunity is huge because it’s a new platform. It’s kind of like if you got into Amazon in 2011, right? You would be huge probably because it was just there wasn’t as much competition, all of that. And so this is kind of an opportunity for people to get in on the ground floor of a new platform.

17:15 LISA SOMERS: And it did $11 billion in sales last year. So it’s by no means small, but it’s small in the grand scale of where I believe it’s going to get to.

17:24 JIM BEACH: So if I was trying to sell my $20 organic, non-gluten sex lube. And is that one of the best products you’ve ever heard of, Lisa, or what?

17:33 LISA SOMERS: You know, when you said that at the start, I had to mute myself because I did begin to giggle when you said that. But that is a fantastic product, and certain products do better than others on this platform, and I’ll explain why. If you take the Pokemon card example, right, people want to buy multiple of that, so they’ll stay on the stream, they want another pack, so they’ll swipe again. And so usually like, if you have an array of products you can sell, it works quite well. If it’s one thing, then, you know, you might have a case where people come on, they buy it, they go away, right?

18:07 LISA SOMERS: So what you’re trying to do is create a situation where you have repeat buyers, people keep coming back, people watch your streams, but also it could be little things like if you’re a really entertaining person even. It’s like that’s enough, you know, people want to watch it for the entertainment factor. So there’s all sorts of things you can sell on there. The reason we picked Pokemon is because it’s just such a good market for beginners to start with, it’s not, you know, you don’t have to be passionate about it because the people watching your stream are passionate about it.

18:38 LISA SOMERS: So they’re telling you, 0 my god, that’s such a good card. Like, you don’t even have to know. Like that lady I mentioned that did 50 K with us. She literally would pull a card and be like, who is this? I have no idea. You know, she just didn’t know. So it is quite a unique one.

18:55 JIM BEACH: [Unclear amount.] Right? Did you know a card recently sold for $16.5 million a Pokemon card, a single card? You know, I just, I’m one of the people who just don’t get Pokemon at all. I don’t understand it. I don’t, they’re building Pokemon theme parks and I’m like, what in the world? I just do not get it at all. And then there’s another one out there. Well, the one life or one thing or what, um, It’s even bigger than it’s as big as Pokemon.

19:23 LISA SOMERS: One piece?

19:24 JIM BEACH: Is that what you’re talking about? What did you call it?

19:27 LISA SOMERS: One piece?

19:28 JIM BEACH: Yeah, that, that thing. I don’t even know what the hell that is. What’s one piece?

19:33 LISA SOMERS: And it’s another card game. There’s many of them. There’s magic, the gathering. Lots of them. And just for the record, I’m not particularly interested in Pokemon either. Like, I’m really not, but what I am interested in is helping people to build additional income streams. And so, like, it was the same even when my brother started his Amazon business. He sold like dog leashes and he didn’t even have a dog, right? He sold like cream canvas wardrobes and he didn’t care about that.

19:59 LISA SOMERS: It was like for him, the thing he was trying to do was prove out that he could make an income online and he could do it, you know, without having to spend all his time at it and whatever. And so it’s kind of a similar thing for us. Like I said, you know, we don’t we don’t actually have an audience of people who love Pokemon. We have an audience of people who are 9 to fivers or they have a business already.

20:25 LISA SOMERS: Like one of our clients, he runs a lot of restaurants and food trucks and he just wanted a different income stream that he could add in and he added this in. So I’m definitely by no means Pokemon expert myself. But it’s just an incredible category for beginners to get started in on that platform specifically.

20:42 JIM BEACH: And what does that class cost?

20:44 LISA SOMERS: So that one is, um, there’s a couple of different options we have. There’s either a $600 one or a $1,500 one depending on what level of support. You kind of have. But we’ll basically walk you through that entire process. We have different group calls on. We have a community. We give you kind of all the shortcuts that we use in order to be successful on the platform because obviously like any new thing. There’s a ton of mistakes you can make, you know, if you don’t have some sort of system to follow.

21:13 LISA SOMERS: So we really tried to put everything in that we kind of learned along the way of doing it on our end so that our students kind of don’t have to go through the pain of figuring it out themselves.

21:25 JIM BEACH: I love it. Back to our lube. So I want to sell lube for $20 a bottle, okay? Where do I set my market or my auction price at? How does that look?

21:35 LISA SOMERS: Well, it really would depend on all of your costs and all of that. You’re trying to factor that in. What sort of margin are you after?

21:44 JIM BEACH: Oh, you know…

21:45 LISA SOMERS: Right. So I would say, you know, it’s diff- it is difficult to say because I don’t know exactly what else you’d be selling. Like I said, it’s better if you have multiple products on there, but I think it’s really just accounting for making sure that you’re making a healthy profit. And if you’re getting people to bid, you obviously have to kind of, you’re trying to ensure that the bid, the auction amount reaches a high enough level with a product like that. It’s sort of not like, it’s very hard.

22:13 LISA SOMERS: You’re kind of comparing apples to oranges a little bit with that marble because we wouldn’t be saying go and sell that type of a product on there necessarily. We would be saying have a number of products that you can offer, that people are going to keep coming back for, and are going, you know, that you can be adding into your product kind of, I guess, gallery or whatever you want to say. So I would say you’re putting me on the spot there and I appreciate it, but I would say it’s a tricky little thing to answer without kind of having more info. But the one thing that’s really good is…

22:47 JIM BEACH: What is the model of the best product? Or maybe it’s not the product that you were referring to? It’s the bucket, the basket of goods that you sell there. You have to sell a big basket is what you’re saying, many different SKUs.

23:01 LISA SOMERS: Well, not necessarily. Some people sell handbags, for example, that are a higher price point. But again, with what we teach, I don’t want someone having to have 100 handbags in their house, right? Because I’m focused on people who are more beginner level, but people do sell clothes, for example. And with clothes, if you think about it, like you might buy a top, you might also buy a pair of trousers, you might, so it kind of allows for that repeat purchase.

23:26 LISA SOMERS: The one thing you kind of don’t want to do is have something that like, you know, I’m trying to think of an example, like some sort of like pot for your kitchen, right? It’s like you buy that once, you’re not going to come back next week and buy another one, right? Like you’re you’re done. So I think it’s that’s kind of the principle, I would say, and that’s why the cards work so well because it’s just a really good category to get involved with and get started with. But people do sell all sorts of things.

23:57 LISA SOMERS: I would say the best thing is if you are interested in the platform, just go and check it out and see like what are people selling on there. And then if you already have a business like, what are you doing? Could it work on there and look at the way people are kind of structuring their streams? Because the way if I was selling handbags, I would probably structure my streams a little bit differently than how we do it, for example, because we’re selling lots of items very quickly.

24:24 LISA SOMERS: So it really is, it’s probably a longer conversation that’s needed on that, but I would, I would say the best thing to do is just observe other people on there, see what they’re doing and emulate it if it’s, if it seems to be working for them, you know?

24:39 JIM BEACH: Lisa, I heard you wanted to play our little game, the quick 10.

24:43 LISA SOMERS: I do love. I love a game. So I’m very excited about this part of our call.

24:48 JIM BEACH: Excellent, excellent. Do you want to accept the standard wager?

24:52 LISA SOMERS: I don’t know what that is, but okay.

24:54 JIM BEACH: Great. I love your attitude. Number one, favorite creativity hack.

24:57 LISA SOMERS: Uh, okay, I would say it is changing location and not working from the same place for more than a few hours.

25:04 JIM BEACH: Number two, favorite bootstrapping trick.

25:05 LISA SOMERS: Selling to your existing customers again and again and really maximizing your LTV.

25:09 JIM BEACH: Number three, name your top passions.

25:11 LISA SOMERS: Um, helping people change their circumstances through online incomes, definitely. Reading, personal development, dogs, very important, and building things such as businesses and Lego.

25:19 JIM BEACH: Number four, the first 3 steps in starting a business are…

25:22 LISA SOMERS: Mm, go where the demand is. Find the proven process that you can follow and trust in that process rather than in yourself because you don’t know what you’re doing yet.

25:32 JIM BEACH: Number five, the best way to get your first real customer is…

25:32 LISA SOMERS: Through your existing network, and do not be afraid to ask people if they know someone who needs what you are offering.

25:41 JIM BEACH: Number six, your dreamiest technology is…

25:42 LISA SOMERS: Clicking a button and having all my Facebook ads be created for me, but they would actually be good.

25:49 JIM BEACH: Number seven, best entrepreneurial advice.

25:50 LISA SOMERS: Um, it’s going to suck at least 50% of the time and that is totally normal.

25:55 JIM BEACH: Number eight, worst entrepreneurial mistake.

25:57 LISA SOMERS: Thinking you’re making progress, but you’re actually just busy.

26:00 JIM BEACH: Number nine, favorite entrepreneur and why?

26:01 LISA SOMERS: Russell Brunson, because I probably owe him my entire entrepreneurial career. That’s how I got started reading his books and listening to his podcast.

26:09 JIM BEACH: Number 10, favorite superhero and why?

26:11 LISA SOMERS: Easy, Batman, because they’re the best movies of all the superhero movies and he’s just a really cool dude.

26:16 JIM BEACH: Fantastic. Excellent answers. Lisa, we will calculate your score and get that in just a second. Did you see Lisa, the video that came out this week about a Lego exhibit somewhere? I don’t know what it was, but they had built an entire race car out of Legos, and it was a $300,000 thing, and it had just won the top Lego prize, and a little three-year-old kid came and jumped in the middle of it and destroyed the hood, pulled one of the doors off. The guy lost because the rule said very clearly it had to be, you know, correct when it won.

26:49 JIM BEACH: And this kid came in, the last second just jumped in the middle of the Legos. Did you see that? You’ve got to pull that up on YouTube to look for it.

26:58 LISA SOMERS: Oh, I did not see it, but that is the most depressing thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

27:04 JIM BEACH: And have you heard, have you seen the video of Harrison Ford? He’s on some talk show and one of the talk show, backstage guys, is a Lego fanatic, and he brings his, you know, 80,000 piece Lego set that he has built and hands it to Harrison Ford, who drops it on the ground.

27:21 LISA SOMERS: Yes, I have seen that, and that is both hilarious and painful, I would say.

27:26 JIM BEACH: I love it. I love it. All right. Oh, I just got your score. Oh, Lisa, I’m so sorry for you. I am so sorry. You got a 94, which is an excellent score. But apparently we had someone from Andalusia, who was our one of our judges today, and you know how those damn people from Andalusia are through a real curveball at you. So you got a 94. You have to have a 95 to win, though. And so you owe us a Tesla. We always play for a Tesla. Okay, what color would you like?

27:56 LISA SOMERS: I’m looking for a red this time.

27:58 JIM BEACH: Okay, very good.

27:59 LISA SOMERS: I’ll post that out to you in a little envelope.

28:02 JIM BEACH: Ah, that’ll work. How do we find out more follow online? Buy some classes.

28:07 LISA SOMERS: Yeah, so you can go to Marketplace Superheroes.com. That’s one place you can go to check out some of our programs. Also, you can follow me on Instagram. My handle is at it’s Lisa Somers, S-O-M-E-R-S. You can follow me there. Send me a message. I would love to hear from you.

28:23 JIM BEACH: Fantastic. Lisa, I learned a ton from you. Great job. Thanks for being with us and we’d love to have you back. Thanks a lot.

28:31 LISA SOMERS: Awesome. Thank you so much.

28:33 JIM BEACH: And we will be right back. Bye, bye.

28:35 INTRO 2: Well, that’s a wonderful question, actually. Oh my gosh, I love the opportunity to do this. Thank you, Jim. Wow, that’s a great one. You know, that is a phenomenal question. That’s a great question, and I don’t have a great answer. That’s a great question. Oh, that is such a loaded question, man, that’s actually a really good question. School for Startups Radio.

29:09 JIM BEACH: We are back, and again, thank you so very much for being with us. Very excited to introduce another amazing entrepreneur. Listen to this. Lawrence Dunning has had three successful careers. He started off as a derivatives trader and had a multimillion dollar company and net worth by the age of 30. He gave that up to become a professional MMA fighter and had real success there, competed in 6 continents. He then grew up and decided to be a real estate broker because he was tired of getting his face knocked in. I made that part of it. I have no idea if that’s true.

29:35 JIM BEACH: A real estate broker and developer and started at scratch at the age of 35 became a top one% agent, sold over $38 million in multi-unit properties and just recently completed his first ground up development. That means he bought a piece of land and built from scratch and sold it off. He also holds a second degree jujitsu black belt and has run marathons on all 7 continents, which means that they had a marathon at Antarctica, which just sounds crazy as all hell to me.

29:56 JIM BEACH: He has a podcast of his own called Enter the Lion Heart and a best-selling book called the Forgotten Asset Class, low risk, high reward, real estate investing, Lawrence Dunning. Welcome to the show. How you doing?

30:05 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Really appreciate the intro. Thank you, Jim.

30:07 JIM BEACH: Oh, so what’s up with the MMA career? I mean, why?

30:10 LAWRENCE DUNNING: You know, that’s a great question. So I was trading and on the, I was in the Chicago Board of Trade. And when you’re in that business, the people, you need some kind of outlet for the stress of being a trader and a lot of people turn into alcohol or drugs. To me, I turned to boxing and I won the Chicago Golden Gloves and I got into jiu-jitsu and martial arts. And then I turned 30 and I had all these zeros in my bank account. I was a single guy and I was like, you know what?

30:41 LAWRENCE DUNNING: I’ve got a lifetime to make money, but I have a small window if I want to pursue, you know, professional MMA. And back then it was, there wasn’t really much money in, it’s changed now. They just had an event at the White House, you know, but back then it was still kind of a growing sport. There wasn’t anything in it other than personal challenge and I’ve always loved personal challenge. So I took a sabbatical and it was really great, you know, lifelong memories and I’m really glad I did it.

31:09 JIM BEACH: All right. Uh, is it painful? I mean, do you get nose breaks and all? I mean, does it, it looks brutal?

31:16 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Listen, there was definitely, you know, those times where you went to get stitched up after a fight in the hospital. That wasn’t, that wasn’t so fun, it wasn’t so glamorous, but I think it’s just the price for admission for doing really hard things. And I think there’s a lot of satisfaction in doing things that terrify you and I’m a naturally introverted person. So the thought of being in front of thousands of people and a pair of Lycra shorts, you know, fighting somebody. That was probably the scariest thing I could imagine other than, you know, getting shot at in war maybe. Um, so that’s why I wanted to do it.

31:50 LAWRENCE DUNNING: I think there’s something, there’s a lot of growth you get in facing your fears and you can apply that to business, to life, to everything else as well.

31:59 JIM BEACH: Well, I certainly agree with that, but I just don’t want to get punched in the gut. Right.

32:05 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Look, don’t forget your, the objective is, you punch them, you don’t get hit. So that’s the goal. It doesn’t always happen because that’s the goal.

32:13 JIM BEACH: All right. And so why did you come and choose real estate? What was the, why didn’t you go back into derivative trading, what you were so good at?

32:22 LAWRENCE DUNNING: You know what? That’s such a good question? And that was the plan. The plan was always just step back on my spot in the trading floor and keep making all this money. But during the years I was away, high-frequency traders and the big companies came in and I had my own company, a little group, those little groups can’t compete with the big companies. They have too much money behind them. They have a whole team of technical analysts and things like that. So it’s just impossible to compete with it. So that business model basically went away. So I was the last generation of real pit traders.

32:55 JIM BEACH: Okay. And that’s tough. When you guys and make it, you know, you seem like a big pond kind of guy. You’re willing to go out there and fight with the big guy. So why didn’t you go back and become one of the big players in the Chicago market?

33:10 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Great question. I would have had to join people and be an employee, not a owner. And I think when I became an entrepreneur at 24, and once you work for yourself and you got that taste of freedom, and it’s weird. People think, you know, entrepreneurs tend to work a lot harder than people that work for salary employees, but because you have ownership, there’s something that makes it a lot freer and easier. And I think when you get a taste of that, it’s impossible to go back. And I had that same mindset. And also I had a good mentor.

33:41 LAWRENCE DUNNING: I had a really good friend who lived in the same high rise in Chicago and he was an attorney, very smart guy, and he said, you know, I don’t really like being an attorney. There’s so much money in real estate. You know, you’d kill it with your English accent living in Chicago. Why don’t we, you know, start working in real estate? But we’ll get our licenses, but we’ll also do developments and rehabs and there’s so much money there. We should do it. So he was kind of that voice in my ear. And I thought, you know what? Why not give it a go?

34:14 JIM BEACH: Would you… Agree that Chicago is a declining market slash city at this point?

34:19 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Such a great question. So there’s a lot of media talking about the outflow of people from Chicago. And that’s true. The state of Illinois. People are leaving, but there’s actually more people coming in. You’ve got to think if you’re a graduate in all the states around Chicago and the Midwest. You know, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana. When you graduate, you’re going to go to the big city because that’s tends to be with it.

34:42 JIM BEACH: Florida or Arizona.

34:43 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Well, yeah, so they are great markets, but the thing with real estate is the Midwest has higher cap rates and returns. So actually, I sell buildings in Chicago to people from all those states you just mentioned. I have clients in Texas, I have clients in Florida, California, New Jersey, New York, and they’re all buying property in Chicago. Why? Because you can get such a good return that you can’t get in those other states because the real estate is too expensive compared to the rent prices. So it’s actually a very interesting phenomenon that I wouldn’t have thought because you’re right.

35:14 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Texas and Florida have really good politics that people are, you know, voting for their feet. They’re all moving there to those states. North Carolina as well, those other states, but you don’t get the return that you get in the Midwest. So the Midwest has always been slow and steady appreciation and really good cap rates for real estate.

35:33 JIM BEACH: Alright. I guess that makes sense. I hadn’t thought of that. You’re right. That does make a lot of sense. I love Chicago. I had some of my most important moments in my life in Chicago and first girlfriends and all that kind of stuff.

35:46 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Oh, wow.

35:47 JIM BEACH: Great stories about Chicago.

35:48 LAWRENCE DUNNING: You know, listen, James, Chicago has its problems for sure. Like a lot of cities, but the Midwest people, I mean, I come from London. I worked. I worked before I moved to Chicago, I worked on Wall Street in New York. I worked in Amsterdam, I worked in London. I actually taught, I worked in Moscow, Russia when I was young too. And you that the people in the Midwest, I will put them up against anyone in the world. They are some of the most genuine, hard-working, good people out there.

36:17 JIM BEACH: I wouldn’t deny that, yes. So, Lawrence, you seem like a very different type of person, you know, living in all these cities going to Russia when you’re young to just teach and experience. When did you decide you were going to be different from my cat just knocked over all of my pictures? Oh, boy. I got 2 kids for Father’s Day. And, you know, because that’s really what you need for Father’s Day is too. Sort of like his birthday. When I turned 50, you know what I got for my 50th birthday, Lawrence?

36:46 LAWRENCE DUNNING: What was that?

36:47 JIM BEACH: A baby.

36:48 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Oh, congratulations. That’s awesome. I mean listen, I’m 47 and we’re doing IVF for kid number two. So I’m with you right there.

36:55 JIM BEACH: Okay, yeah.

36:56 LAWRENCE DUNNING: That’s awesome.

36:57 JIM BEACH: But I also had 30 year olds already at that point.

37:00 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Oh, wow. So second time, second time round.

37:03 JIM BEACH: Well, you know what? That’s gonna be so interesting for you.

37:06 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Oh, fuck.

37:07 JIM BEACH: Well, I don’t know what you’re… I’m talking kids not marriages.

37:10 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Yeah, that’s what that’s what I thought.

37:13 JIM BEACH: No, but that’s going to be so good. I did the early marriage with two and then the late marriage with two. So, yes.

37:20 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Oh gotcha. But it’s going to be so interesting this time around. Just seeing you’ll be such a different person. Obviously, you won’t have the energy you had when you’re young, but you’re going to have the wisdom. So it’s going to be a very interesting, you know, second time around for you.

37:36 JIM BEACH: Do you know about baby wise sleep training?

37:39 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Yes.

37:39 JIM BEACH: Oh, good. I won’t have to tell it to you then. I’m obsessed with it. Absolutely obsessed. And, uh, the women around me every time I mention it, just roll their eyes and tell me to shut up because I’m teaching it. All right, so let’s go back to Chicago.

37:54 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Yeah, you kind of said, when did you want to be different? I’m really glad that I just had a good role model. You know, I remember my dad when I was young. He’s a retired airline pilot, but I got to travel a lot with him when I was young. And when you go to these different countries and you see different cultures. It’s it’s really good for a young mind because people that never leave. Whichever country you grew up in, if you don’t have other perspectives to compare it to. You’re just saying this is this is the way life is. This is the way you live your life.

38:28 LAWRENCE DUNNING: But when you can see different cultures and people in different countries do things differently, it does make you think, oh, but why should I live a life like everybody else? And then my dad also used to always tell me, you know, he’s like, you know, I could work overtime and pay people to help me, do things around the house, or I can work the minimum of hours, spend as much time as I can with you and your mom, and just, you know, do my own yard work and do things around the house. And he just had a philosophy where he didn’t really care what other people thought.

39:02 LAWRENCE DUNNING: He was very frugally invested well, he made a lot of money just by being frugal investing, never cared about, you know, buying the latest car and getting the latest watch. And then when I went into trading, that’s all the young traders would talk about. You know, there was like, I want to get this watch and I want to get this car and it was so superficial. And I was like, man, this goes, as I made more money, I didn’t change my lifestyle. I bought a one bedroom condo with my first bonus at 24 and I stayed in that for 15 years.

39:34 LAWRENCE DUNNING: So it’s like you don’t have to keep expanding your lifestyle as your money goes up. If you’re frugal, money for me is freedom. It gives you the opportunities to travel the world to do awesome things like, you know, a marathon in Antarctica or take a sabbatical to follow personal dreams. You have to have the freedom and the money to do that. So I think that was a great lesson I got from my father.

39:57 JIM BEACH: It is. And I think the dumbest thing on earth is watches. I just don’t get it. Men don’t.

40:03 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I mean, listen, Jimmy, if you love like the craftsmanship of the Swiss watch and everything, you know, if it’s your thing, great, just don’t do it because your neighbor does, you know, I got friends that are like, well, I got to get this car because my neighbor upgraded and I feel embarrassed with my car, like, who cares about that stuff? Why I live on 8 acres. You know, I’m an hour south of Chicago. I live on an unincorporated street where I could have lions and tigers if I wanted to, you know, there’s complete freedom. I can’t even see my neighbors because I’ve got so much land.

40:38 LAWRENCE DUNNING: That’s the life I want. I live my life for myself. I live vicariously through myself. I don’t care about trying to impress people that don’t matter in the end. I just care about my inner circle.

40:49 JIM BEACH: All right. How do you sell on a down market?

40:53 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Um, well, you know, we’re in one right now. So it’s crazy the last few months since the Iran debacle, the prices have gone up in terms of the raw material costs. So I sell a lot of new construction. So for the builders, if they saw something today that they built 6 months ago, they know it’s going to cost some 40 to 50,000 to build the exact same product. But on the other side, the buyers are like, hey, interest rates are all time high, I want a discount.

41:20 LAWRENCE DUNNING: So you have this big disconnect and I’m getting, you know, getting a lot of low offers that we’re turning down, but it’s been a very frustrating market. So I have to have those conversations with these developers and say, listen, I can sell your building, but you’re not going to make, you know, the profit that you want because of the market we’re in. So I think you can sell, you can, things trade in every market. You just have to be realistic with your pricing and your expectations.

41:48 JIM BEACH: And who do you tend to represent more? Sellers or buyers?

41:51 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Um, I would say buy it. I do both, but I would probably say 2 thirds on the sale side and then one-third on the buy side. And I do a lot of stuff directly. You know, I have a guy called from California. He wants to buy a couple of buildings. I say, I’ve got these 2 that aren’t listed, but they’ll be ready in 45 days. And he said they’re perfect and then we agree to a price in terms. So I do a lot of that kind of stuff off market deals and things like that.

42:21 JIM BEACH: What is the most successful part of being a real estate agent? Seems like it would be the extrovert things of getting on the phone and schmoozing in every room and going to meetings that you don’t want to go to and introducing everyone to your ideas, a very extroverted life.

42:36 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Yeah, yes and no. You have to pick. I have a lot of younger agents call me and ask me for advice and mentorship and I would say, you know, you have to find more works for you. If you’re an extroverted person, you want to be going to those networking events and giving out your card and meeting people and doing things like that. For me, I’ve got a family and I’ve always done my own thing. So that’s not really my style. My style is to develop very good relationships with a handful of developers and then you do a good job with them. They refer to other people.

43:10 LAWRENCE DUNNING: So I think you’ve got to find your niche, but it all comes down to relationships. And there’s that old saying, your network is your net worth. In real estate that’s the case. If you have a huge network, you know all these people. Going to be easy for you to make connections and match buyers and sellers and help people. And then you get paid for the help. So I think developing a network and it is, obviously, you said it right. If you are extroverted, it’s going to be easier. I’m actually a naturally introverted person, but I’ve worked very hard to become more extroverted.

43:42 JIM BEACH: I’m the same way, but I would also argue that introverts might be better salespeople because they listen better and therefore can connect a lot better because I think listening and sales are the, you know, go together better than buy from me, buy from me. You know, let me think about listening as an extrovert.

43:59 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Well, I’m so glad you… I’m so glad you said that because I used to joke that I’m the worst salesman because I’m the opposite of pushy. And my, one of my good friends said to me years ago, he’s like, no, that’s actually a really good salesman because you, you are listening more. You’re not trying to be put, everyone hates that typical stereotypical pushy salesman. You know, the car salesman that’s being kind of slimy and it’s just most people despise that. So I’m the opposite of that. But I’ve become as I got more established. I’m much more realistic. I’ll tell people the blunt truth, you know, especially on the sales side.

44:34 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Like, listen, you’re being unrealistic in your pricing, this is where it will get it done. And I know my numbers now and from experience and just, yeah, you got to listen, but you also have to tell people the truth. And I think that’s going back to that comment about anything will trade in any market, if you’re realistic with pricing. And so my job is to have sellers be realistic with pricing. And also buyers, you know, I’m talking to a guy just before this call. And he was like, well, you know, if I can’t get this price, maybe I’ll buy in the spring.

45:07 LAWRENCE DUNNING: I was like, okay, you know, like if that’s if that’s your mentality, you’re probably never going to make anything work. If you’re like, well, I could buy today or in 6 months, you know, because you don’t have any urgency. So I can’t change people’s urgency, but if people are serious, I can help them.

45:24 JIM BEACH: Where do you think the macro or just the overall marketplace is going? Do you think we’re going to be in a recession in 6 months? Do you?

45:32 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Great question. Great question. So recession wise, If, and sorry, this might be a bit, a bit complicated question, but if you look at what is the oldest store of wealth, it’s gold for 5000 years. And if you look at real estate in terms of the price of gold or the stock market, it’s actually had a massive correction already because gold had this huge run the last few years. So when priced in gold, we’ve had a correction, but it looks like things are expensive because it’s priced in a depreciating fiat currency, which is the US dollar, and that’s been losing money for 53 years since Nixon came off the gold standard.

46:07 LAWRENCE DUNNING: So I think people get really caught up in, oh, things are overpriced. Is going to be a big correction. There already has been. You just don’t see it because you’re valuing it into an depreciating currency. And when you have, you know, Warren Buffett alone has something like $400 billion of cash on the sidelines, there’s so many people with cash on the sidelines.

46:27 LAWRENCE DUNNING: As soon as things start to have a pull back, people are mine, and that’s kind of a support on the market, you’re going to have a government support because the US government have kind of outsource pensions into the S&P 500 So there’s just too much pressure to keep prices elevated. So they’ll do whatever it takes to keep prices higher. I’m a big believer in all asset classes from Bitcoin and goal to real estate and equities. They’re all going to go higher. You know, there’s going to be some little pullbacks and dips along the way, but we’re going to keep making new highs like we have done for decades.

47:01 JIM BEACH: Tell me about your book, The Forgotten Asset class. How has real estate been in forgotten class?

47:06 LAWRENCE DUNNING: So it’s forgotten. I’ve used that title because I have an MBA in finance and we study, you know, modern portfolio theory and it talks about the interplay between cash, bonds, equities and gold. That’s kind of the typical things that people talk about. And now Bitcoin, people are talking more about Bitcoin, it’s become a more established asset class. The reason they teach that is because you can have the same MBA program in Sydney, London, and New York and you teach the same things. Real estate is so specific.

47:33 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Even, you know, in Chicago, it’s like you’re east and west of the same street, California, the prices in the area are very different, you know, 3 blocks, one way, 3 blocks, another way. It’s so specific to a city and then in the city you have all these submarkets and areas. It’s just too hard to teach. So when I when I change careers at 35, I realize I’m a huge reader. I’ve spent a lifetime reading. I didn’t have a TV as a kid because my parents were trying to get me to read.

48:03 LAWRENCE DUNNING: And so I’ve always been a big bookworm and I’ve read so many books on entrepreneurship and business and finance and all this stuff and I’m like, man, I really don’t know anything about real estate investing. I know so little because it’s not really talked about and somehow it escaped me. So that’s why I called it because it’s the biggest asset class there is, but I called it forgotten because in traditional finance, people don’t really talk about it. So I wanted just to say that there’s a place for everything in a portfolio depending on your goals and your aims.

48:33 LAWRENCE DUNNING: And real estate is an amazing asset class if you learn how to use it. And the big thing is, because you get the tax write-offs, the tax code encourages you to own real estate with depreciation. And the other thing is, you’re buying on leverage. You know, most people buy with between 5 and 25% down. You know, back in the 1929 stock crash, people were buying stocks on 10% leverage. That, why when the stock crash, they lost everything and people were committing suicide and it was really tragic because they were buying on leverage. But now very, very few people buy stocks on leverage. Most people buy, you know, 100% down.

49:08 LAWRENCE DUNNING: But with real estate, you don’t need a big appreciation if you’re only putting down, you know, 20% because you have 5 times leverage. So they’re the kind of the 2 secrets of real estate. And I just wanted to spread that message that it hasn’t placed in traditional finance that isn’t taught in finance.

49:24 JIM BEACH: Yes, the professors know very little about real life.

49:27 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Exactly.

49:28 JIM BEACH: Arnold Schwarzenegger, I got a great quote in his biography, and he said, his business professor showed up in an old Volkswagen Beetle, and he dressed poorly and Arnold thought, well, I’m not going to learn anything from him because he has no money, but he’s teaching finance. So, yeah, good one.

49:43 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Yeah.

49:44 JIM BEACH: So, what are your goals then for your real estate now? Is your goal to have your name on the top of skyscraper?

49:51 LAWRENCE DUNNING: No, I mean, I don’t have a big ego. I’m not like Trump. There was all this thing when Trump put his name on his tower in Chicago and there was all these people like, oh, he’s got to have his name on it. I don’t care about that stuff But it’s really really fun. In your intro, you said I’ve done one new development. That was must be an old. I got update my bio because I’ve actually done a few now, a handful. And that’s really fun. It’s really fun seeing an area in Chicago that’s kind of downtrodden and forgotten.

50:22 LAWRENCE DUNNING: It’s just got a bunch of vacant lots and boarded up houses and you can go in there and build a beautiful building, give housing to people, um, and, you know, just improve the city, building by building and block by block. So that’s been really fun. You know, obviously I want to make money doing it. It’s work, but I just, I enjoy the other aspects, you know, as you get older and more successful. You don’t just want to make money, you know, without doing, you know, things for the greater good. So I think development is really fun and gives me a lot of satisfaction.

50:55 LAWRENCE DUNNING: And I think just, I actually really enjoy work with a handful of developers, and they all have really inspiring stories. You know, one of them’s from Georgia, Ex-Soviet Union. He came to Chicago with nothing. You know, he was an academic with multiple PhDs, but he was about to get persecuted by the regime there, came here and now, you know, he just bought a [unclear amount] boat. He does 20 developments a year. I work with him a lot. It’s like what a great story.

51:21 LAWRENCE DUNNING: One of my other, you know, good friends and developers, you know, he comes from Guadalajara, Mexico, ran away from home at 13 on a farm, eventually made his way to Chicago. Now he’s one of the top developers. So you just have these incredible stories and I get to help them. I get to help sell their projects and be a part of their story and it’s just, it really inspires me as an immigrant myself. Um, it just inspires me, like, people love to talk badly of America, but it is, it is the world leader in in capitalism.

51:52 LAWRENCE DUNNING: You know, I spend a lot of time in Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, these places that when you talk to the people in those countries, they would just give anything to have the opportunities that we have. And then you have people living in America burning the flag because they don’t appreciate what they’ve got because they haven’t left the country. So I think just the, the, being a part of that American dream and the American story is just reinspiring and I get a lot of satisfaction out of that.

52:19 JIM BEACH: Very, very well said. Lawrence, I love it. Absolutely love it. Unfortunately, we are out of time and we need to wrap up. How do we find out more, follow online, get in touch, get a copy of the book. Really appreciate you.

52:32 LAWRENCE DUNNING: I’m pretty easy to find, Lawrence Dunning on LinkedIn, Instagram, the books on Amazon, and yeah, shoot me a message. I love hearing from people. Um, and I just, I really appreciate you taking the time and asking, uh, challenging and thoughtful questions. Really appreciate you.

52:47 JIM BEACH: How important has sport been to your success? The fact that you, uh, pay attention to your body. How does that make you a better salesperson, better father, all the other stuff?

52:56 LAWRENCE DUNNING: Exactly. So well said. I think healthy body, healthy mind is that Greek ideal. When I was in college, I had a quote from Socrates under a picture of Mike Tyson, and it said, um, no man should grow old without knowing the beauty and strength which his body is capable of. And I just think that old, the Greek ideal is healthy body, healthy mind in unison. You’re going to have, you’re going to be much better at your life. You’re going to be a better father, better husband, better friend, better son if you’re in good health.

53:26 LAWRENCE DUNNING: And there’s that one of my favorite quotes is a healthy man wants a 1000 things and a sick man wants one. And I think about that all the time. Like, you know, if you’re sick and you’re really struggling, you don’t care about anything else. So when you’re healthy, make health and fitness priority because your future self will be grateful.

53:45 JIM BEACH: Lawrence Dunning, thank you so much for being with us. Great stuff, and we are out of time. Thank you for being with us today. We will be back soon, tomorrow, whenever it is. Have a great day. Take care, everyone. Bye now.