February 16, 2026 – Business Sergeant Chris Hallberg and NYC Billionaire John Catsimatidis

0:04 Intro 1 : Broadcasting from am and FM stations around the country. Welcome to the Small Business Administration award winning school for startups radio where we talk all things small business and entrepreneurship. Now here is your host, the guy that believes anyone can be a successful entrepreneur, because entrepreneurship is not about creativity, risk or passion. Jim Beach,

0:26 Jim Beach : hello, everyone. Welcome to another exciting edition of School for startups radio. I hope you’re having a great day out there riding the roller coaster life of being an entrepreneur, the ups, the downs, the sudden, flips, the turns, the twists and everything that we have to put up with. I got a fantastic show for you today. First up, we have Chris Hallberg. He is number one a veteran, and has built an incredible community for veteran entrepreneurs, people who are leaving the services and want to go and create a business, doing some really great coaching. We have a fantastic conversation. You will love it, then we’re going to have one of our greatest hits. We have a lot of files that are not on the current server, and we need to get them back up and available to you. So I am replaying certain interviews to get them back up. Today we’re going to have John katsimitis. He is a billionaire from New York City, one of the largest grocery store owners in the city. So it’s a great interview, great show. We’re going to go ahead and get started right now. Here we go. I’m very excited to introduce my first guest today. His name is Chris Alberg. He is a veteran, and we want to thank you for your service. And he is now known as the business sergeant, a very top ranked leadership expert. He was just ranked number nine on the magazine, Inc Magazine’s Top leadership and he was ahead of Simon Sinek. And you all know what we think of Simon Sinek here, so that’s fun to see. He was Colorado’s first entrepreneur, operating system e, o, s implementer, and doing that, he has built a very successful business helping entrepreneurs get involved with EOS. So we love EOS. I’ve had them on the show many times. He is also very active in helping veterans get jobs and build businesses. He has an organization called the Business sergeants community, where they get together with veterans and help them, you know, develop lives post military. Chris, welcome to the show. How you doing?

2:26 Chris Hallberg: I’m doing awesome. Jim, thanks for having me on your program. Thank you for your service. Tell us where you served and what you did.  I spent almost a decade in the army, National Guard, military police, so part time citizen soldier, while I had a full time civilian law enforcement career. So I spent basically the entire 90s in some form of uniform. Excellent.

2:47 Jim Beach : Thank you for that. Sergeant is the highest enlisted. Is that correct?

2:53 Chris Hallberg : That would be Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major. So yeah, e9 a Sergeant e5 is kind of the middle manager. They spend the most time with the troops. And our, you know, corporals are very junior NCOs. And then we go up the sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Master Sergeant. And then we get to Sergeant Major. That’s a, you know, 2530 year position. There, less than 1% make it to Sergeant Major.

3:19 Jim Beach : Those are always in the movies, you know, like the Robin Williams movie about Vietnam, there was the sergeant that I remember. He was the big jerk,

3:27 Chris Hallberg : yeah, what’s three up and three down? Mean to you? Crone hour, end of an ending, right? Was, was his remark,

3:33 Jim Beach : yes, I work for a living. Son,

3:38 Chris Hallberg : don’t call me, sir. I’m a sergeant. I work for a living. That was the that was the saying, Yes,3:42 Jim Beach : oh, that was great. Okay, I just don’t understand military things, so I’m excited to learn. What was it like when you got out of the service?

3:52 Chris Hallberg : Well, I was ready, enjoyed the experience. Wasn’t going to do the 20 years. Some people do, some people don’t. But I really was thankful for the experience. I experienced World Class leadership and some pretty apocalyptically bad leadership. So to get, like, the entire range and experience, and, you know, to serve with a bunch of other people who are writing a blank check to the United States Government up and to include their lives, you know, is a rare thing. Only 7% of Americans are veterans, you know, 1% currently serving. So it’s not a huge group of people. So in the civilian business world, right? People can just walk into your office and say, I’m not feeling it. I’m going to go when you sign a contract for, you know, four, six years. Kind of accountability comes naturally when you have the commitment, you know, below it that supports it. So it was, it was great just to get outside my comfort zone, be stretched, do things I didn’t think I could do, overcome adversity again and again and again and still find a way to win. So like military, people are resilient, and that’s why they make. Great leaders in business. Because, you know, in some cases, like my business partner, Michael chrisilla, who helps me run the business, Sergeant business, you know, he got out of the US Army Special Forces about a year and a half ago, and he was a chief foreign officer three, which is like Yoda Jedi level Green Beret, and like, the government spent millions of dollars training him in a number of different skills. And, you know, just to be around somebody with that kind of project management, relationship building, you know, information gathering, team building. Like, you know, we place a lot of special operators and other veterans in the community. So that’s the whole point of giving them some business training for free. So if we have any veterans listening, you know for sure, would love to have you in our community. And even if you don’t want a job, you just want some training, that’s okay too, but, but I get to see what I call the halo effect myself with Michael, as I just put, you know, say, Michael, do you think I’m on it? And then, you know, a couple days later, like, wow, look at this. Every time 10 out of 10 in the 10 ring, it’s, it’s just a standard that most people never get to and for someone like him to have, you know, 20 some years in that, you know, elite of the elite, it’s pretty exciting. So my point is, if you’re having some leadership issues, you know, you could send your best people to, you know, some training, and you know, that’s obviously going to help them, but it pales in comparison of 20 years of, you know, the cutting edge of leadership and austere environments and problem solving. So we can just get you a cream beret, and that halo effect is that circle around them, the people around them change, and there’s no yelling, there’s no screaming, there’s just, you know, deep, deep relationship building and mission focus. And it’s pretty awesome. So, like, there’s not a lot of problems we can’t fix, you know, with a with a level 10 leader, so to speak,

7:03 Jim Beach : is the military the best place to learn leadership. In your opinion?

7:08 Chris Hallberg : I’m obviously biased, but yes, because you know school after school, and the higher up, you go on a training, and then you know, if you have a great leader, and you have an example, you’re getting trained every day. Even if you’re out operating, there’s always something to learn. And when we when we have these wanted, you know, celebrated leaders, it’s really easy to go to school, you know, when you’re just like, wow, I want to be someday, you know, versus maybe sitting in a classroom at a university and this professor, you know, has been in academia their entire life, and they’re teaching you about business, you know, maybe not as exciting considering the experience there.

7:56 Jim Beach : I have to tell you this quick story, Chris, I taught entrepreneurship at downtown University here in Atlanta for 10 years, and it was the highest ranked class in the entire college. It went from six students a semester to right at 100 a semester, and everyone loved it. It was a great class. I quit to go on and do the rest of my life, and they replaced me by a guy who had just gotten his PhD. He had never run a business. He was a entrepreneur PhD. Listen to his thesis, his dissertation. Chris, I am dissertating, arguing that when entrepreneurs are just getting started, they need a lot of support, but as they get all older in their career and their 10 year entrepreneurs and 20 year entrepreneurs, they don’t need as much support as when they were brand new. He spent seven years to prove that. I was like, Duh, every moron on Earth knows that idiot.8:56 Chris Hallberg : Yeah, that’s the freshman. That’s the one on one course that he didn’t he skipped. So, yeah, I know, I know a lot of credentialed people that you know can’t find their butt with both hands. So you know other people without, you know, a lot of formal education, who can just figure things out. And that’s the beauty of entrepreneurialship, is, you know, when I went to school, I spent the majority of school in the hallway or the dean’s office. I’m a talker, and I love people, and I love I have a lot of energy. I have a lot to say, apparently. So, you know, that didn’t work for, you know, public school, and I remember teachers saying, Hey, Chris, you know you’re gonna pay you to talk all day. You just got to knock this off. And now I look what I get to do all day, you know, by facilitating full day OS sessions, which is pretty heavy on the on the verbal skills, and CEO coaching, and coaching my my veterans and, you know, the teacher was wrong. You can talk all day, right? You’re, you’re a host on a very successful, you know, Radio Network on. Right? Same thing. Somebody probably at some point, said, Hey, you know, sit down. Be smaller. Don’t make noise, right? And that doesn’t work for everyone, so thank God we have things like music and art and business and other ways to express ourselves

10:16 Jim Beach : in this world. Tell us about EOS.

10:19 Chris Hallberg : EOS stands for the Entrepreneurial Operating System. It’s based on a book called traction, get a grip on your business, written by gentleman Gino Wickman, fantastic entrepreneur, great guy. And this is like 20 ish years old, but it’s talking about the you know, seminal business concepts from the last 50 to 100 years. So no theory. And what Gino did is assembled all these different concepts, simplified them all, and then put together in a holistic operating system. So six key components of the OS Jim, I like to joke EOS is like CrossFit for business. You do these six exercises, and you’ll look like an action figure. So first key components, the vision component, you know, answering eight questions, simple, two page business plan that everyone you know, shared by all everyone opts all the way in or all the way out. Half committed, quarter committed people are what kills your organization. And you know, if 30% of your company is all in and the other 60 could take it or leave it, that would explain why your profits aren’t high. Your turnover is high, and things are frustrating. Second key component, the people component, right, right? From Jim Collins masterpiece, Good to Great. Right people. Right seats. Right people share your core values. They’re great to be around. Right seats are people that get, want and have the capacity to do the job. You got to have both, because it’s pretty easy to have the right person in the wrong seat, the wrong person in the right seat. And of course, the wrong people in the wrong seat should be easy to spot, but I find them in the wild all the time. Third key component, the data component, that’s having a scorecard and a set of measurable so think about weekly activities that bring monthly results. If we’re not getting the monthly results, we just look at the precursors, those activities that bring the results, and we just turn those up until we get into parity. Fourth key component, issues component, it’s just an issue, and most people look at issues as negative things. We look at them also as opportunities, things we just need to discuss. We have long term issues, 90 days or more, short term issues, 90 days or less, going over. The fifth key component, that’s the process component, right? Doing, doing the 20% that gives you the 80% checklist outlines go fast, things so we can scale simplified operating environments, and then we follow it. So if we say this is has to be done this way, you know, we’re willing to move people out if they’re not going to follow the process, because the customers deserve it. Your teammates deserve it. It’s the best thing to do. We’re all being paid. Let’s do it this way. Sixth and final key component, Jim, is the traction component that’s on the other side of the vision side, right? Vision Without traction is hallucination. So we break the world down into a 90 day world, and 91 days doesn’t sound like a long time from now, but in EOS lingo, that’s so next quarter I’m working on. I’ve already decided what our focus is for the current quarter. So we create a meeting pulse, and then we set these rocks. Rocks are a term coined by the late Dr Stephen Covey, and they’re, you know, just big priorities, usually Strategic Initiatives outside the day to day, when complete gives you a new capacity, new capabilities, to be better. So this is how we change the wheels on the moving bus and build a future while we operate well in our present. So those are the six key components. There’s an organizational checkup people can take and it’ll give you a score, and most people score around 30 or so when they’re telling the truth. And our job as EOS implementers to Sherpa them up to the top of the mountain and back down safely again, is to get them over 80% on that organizational checkup, dealing with those six

14:09 Jim Beach : components right there. And what does it involve for a business to become EOS involved, certified? Talk with me about your business that does EOS implementation please? Yeah, so we have

14:26 Chris Hallberg : professional, certified and expert EOS implementers, so it’s just three levels based on session experience and tenure, that kind of a thing. And basically, you know, go to EOS school called boot camp, and then every quarter, we have a quarterly collaborative exchange. So we’re just coming up on my 12 year anniversary. Next week is the meeting. So that’s, you know, 40. So I’m almost 50 quarterly training meetings since my training. So the training never ends. You. Iron sharpens iron. This is a big room, and you probably won’t be the smartest person in it. So it’s a really, really wonderful program for coaches, but for companies, usually, you know, once you get over 10 people, a couple million in sales, it makes sense to bring in the professional coach, because, you know, we’re doing open heart surgery on the business. But for smaller companies, you know, they can implement themselves to the EOS self implementer Academy, and you know someone on the team gets nominated. And you know you don’t need to wait to do this soon as you got three or four people. In my assessment, it makes sense. It’s much easier to do when you’re smaller and and if you’re mindful of those six key components from startup, your chances of making it to the end. This isn’t a statistical certainty. I’m just going to take a guess. But it’s like a 3x 5x shot to get to your your goal. Because most people, if you just go through Eos, it’s, it is like a mini MBA. Is like a lot of my clients, and several that have legit MBAs from some pretty good Ivy schools, have said, two years with an implementer, and the discussions we had like, this is the real MBA. So full day sessions, about five days a year for two years, is the average journey that you spend with your Eos implementer, and the transformation is pretty extreme. You know, a lot of times, even the first four to six, seven months, it is like, whoa. We’re feeling this, and then in the next couple of years, like we were fine. Just give you an example. My clients have won, you know, over 200 individual like business journals, best places to work, and you cannot write a check to get one of these. This is an engagement survey. So if you have Yes, you can 44 employees, you know, well, the ones here, it’s an engagement survey. There are other Best Place to Work awards that you definitely can write a check for. And I know what those ones are, but the ones I’m talking about the ones that are valuable are, you know, employee engagement, service based. So if you have 44 employees, and four or five don’t like it, they’re like, you’re not competitive this. This is an anonymous survey talking about, you know, leadership, trust, you know, compensation, communication, all the things that are important. So in my experience, they’re not easy to win, because you got to be in the upper 80s, lower 90s to be competitive. So that that to me, you know, third party validations of a beautiful implementation. But these, these same businesses, you know, make twice the EBIT of their competitors, and have a waiting list to work there. So like, definitely a very strong after picture in almost all cases.

17:47 Jim Beach : Is there an EOS book club?

17:51 Chris Hallberg : Oh, gosh, I bet you. There’s several. And now we have our own publishing arm at EOS. So they’re used

18:00 Jim Beach : to I was the one who told them to do that, and I was working with them, and then all of a sudden they quit emailing me. I was providing. I did. So then they just dropped off the Earth. My idea, Chris was, you have an EOS book club where you’re pretty much required to buy the books that come up, but only EOS people get to publish books in that club, and they would guarantee that all of you became like New York Times or USA Today, bestsellers. You know, if we could have 12,000 people all buying the book, if we did six books a year, all of them would would best sell. And if they’re not doing that, they’re not doing my idea, my idea was guaranteed bestsellers for all of you.

18:43 Chris Hallberg : But yeah, yeah, I think it’s a great idea and, and I think what they’re doing might be pretty similar to that. There might be some Yeah, well, I mean, yeah. I mean, sometimes great ideas require an NDA, right? And sometimes, you know, free ideas are just that, right?

19:02 Jim Beach : So I give out 1000s of ideas, and I’m not going to sign an NDA unless God asks me to, yeah,

19:08 Chris Hallberg : exactly right. That’s another thing, because having a great idea stupid never do Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s usually a little off putting, because there are so many ideas, the execution, right? The traction is $10,000 a carat. The vision is 99 cents a pound. And I got a semi out back full of vision. So, you know, that’s why, you know, I joke about that, but at the end of the day, taking an idea and actually scaling it is completely different than just having ideas.

19:37 Jim Beach : Yeah, the work is the hard part. Yep, yep. I set them up with a publisher. I did all of it so well. They’re very

19:47 Chris Hallberg : entrepreneurial over at the Entrepreneurial Operating System, so I think, I think that might be part of it, the idea.

19:53 Jim Beach : And I was like, That’s a great idea. We started working on it, and then they just vaporwareed me. And so if there’s, if y’all are doing that, I hope you are, because it’s a great idea, and it would guarantee all of you to be best sellers. So I don’t know how that would be a bad idea.

20:10 Chris Hallberg : Is there? Yeah, no. I think, I think the imprint that the the book label has already produced three, four or five books in the last six months. So I think it’s going to be the imprint name. I don’t have that off the top of my head, but I think it’s pretty easy to find it’s out there. And the neat thing about it is, I think there’s a rollout book now there. There are some the visionary book, which is Mark C winter’s follow up to rocket fuel, one of those popular books talking about the visionary integrator combo, which is unique to e, o, s, and that’s a great book I got. I was fortunate enough to be a test reader on that. And the visionary book from Mark C Winters is awesome. It is like the next level of clarity on the differences between founding, you know, partners and operating partners, or visionaries, which 80% of all entrepreneurs are kind of visionaries. They start a lot. They don’t finish a lot. Like I have 800 ideas, and I’m working on five or six of them, integrators.

21:06 Jim Beach : Chris, how do you choose the idea to actually focus on

21:11 Chris Hallberg : the ones that you know? Integrator? So the other the VI duo, Batman and Robin. Crushing crimes is a duo. One is that, you know, external, raising capital culture emotionally based. Visionary integrators are the ones that help visionaries apply that vision, put it down to the ground and get traction. So if a visionary has 20 ideas a month, an integrator is going to kill 19 of those, because they’re actually distractions. But the one that slides through can only come from the visionary, and it’s beautiful. And then the integrator actually gets that to, you know, do something with it, to scale it and keep it going. So they’re a filter. But, you know, integrators usually come from operations, finance. They have, you know, they’re high. Fact finders, where visionaries are low. Fact finders, integrators are low, quick starts, low risk. Visionaries are high, quick starts, high risk. So it really adds balance to the organization. And then the really important job of the integrator is to lead, manage and hold accountable. There’s an acronym LMA, the leadership team, because visionaries often aren’t good at leading, managing and definitely not holding people accountable, but these are the people who write the tickets, not give the warnings, and it’s really important to curate a leadership team of department heads that we listen to because they’re excellence and they’re more of the editor or the department heads are the writer, so it’s a collaboration. But you know, integrators are, you know conductors of orchestras and department heads, our first share of, you know the string department through the Woodwards, excellent.

22:54 Jim Beach : So Chris, I’ve had some 6500 guests on the show now, and Simon Sinek was the worst guest I’ve ever had, the rudest and most insulted by the questions that I asked him, and we got into a huge fight over just the word why. You know his idea of why, and I’ve watched 1000 of his videos, he’s always so polite and cool and collected, and boy, did he show a different face that day. You know, I said, My why is this that’s not acceptable? Why? Why is my why unacceptable? He just went off and, you know, his, oh, you should listen to that interview, everybody.

23:49 Chris Hallberg : No, I’m curious. You’re gonna have to send me this link. I’m there for it.

23:58 Jim Beach : You know, I just judging someone else’s Why is crazy to me. That’s like saying what you believe is wrong, and everything that you believe that you want to do like you love your mother, that’s wrong. You know it was anyway. He doesn’t like to be challenged. I’m sure he’s ever been challenged like that. So interesting.

24:27 Chris Hallberg : We’re all humans and we’re humans. I’m sure we all have our off days and on days, and you know, I might give him some space or graze. I’ve never had any dealings with him, but I’ve certainly watched his videos, and he seems polite. So, yeah, that’s that’s interesting. So I’m

24:45 Jim Beach : just shocked that someone would say what you want is wrong. No, why you want to build a business. That’s an unacceptable reason. I was like, wow, because that’s like 90% of entrepreneurship, I think. And. Anyway, one more minute, Chris, what else we have from you? What else do you want to share with us before we get your URL and all that?

25:08 Chris Hallberg : Well, I would just, you know, put out there, the pushing the whole, let’s look at some veterans here. Leadership isn’t happening like it used to. Every generation has always had. Hey, this next generation, we’re in trouble. But discipline, accountability, motivation, these kids coming out of school today, it’s not the same mix it used to be. So providing some examples for your young folks with some world class leaders, great way to bring the next generation up and maybe undo some of the societal things with accountability and motivation that we struggle with as a nation. So like, I just have a compassionate play. Any veterans. Listen to this. Go to B, I, Z, S, G, t.com, join our community, whether you wanted to be placed or not. Anybody wants e, o, s, they can just Chris Hall, be OS, I’ll pop right up. And then the thing I’d like to talk about is go expand, which is a new software program that I represent. It’s e, o, s compatible, so it’s a licensed product, and it feathers in a bunch of really top tier human performance tools, pulse surveys, dashboards, stuff that I found that really helps take the subjectivity out of the work that we do and just have objective data with visualized trend lines and relativity is such a great tool. So it takes away the egos and the personalities, and we just get down to some of that great data. And when you visualize it for us, highly visual people, it helps people execute your implementation. So those are the big things. And then, you know, lastly, anybody wants to connect on LinkedIn, would love to have your connection, and happy to have, you know, discussions with CEOs about leveling up their organizations.

26:56 Jim Beach : Fantastic, Chris. Thank you so much for being with us and sharing great information. And we’d love to have you and some of your Eos colleagues back on the show. If you have a client who has an interesting story, send them our way.

27:09 Unknown Speaker : That sounds awesome. Thank you very much, Jim,27:11 Jim Beach : thank you, and we will be right back. You. You

27:27 Jim Beach : We are back and again. Thank you so much for being with us. Fantastic guest coming up. I am blown away. So excited to introduce to you our guest. Today, we have John katsmatitis. He is one of the most successful businessmen in the United States. And when I say that, I mean he’s in the top 150 richest men in the world, something like that. He started off with one small grocery store, and we’ll ask that story today in his early 20s, and it turned into a business empire. Let’s get him out. John, welcome. How are you doing today?

28:08 John Catsimatidis : Well, thank you for having me on and we’re trying to get my story out, and I’m telling people read my book, and I’ll teach you how to make a billion dollars too.

28:20 Jim Beach : All right, how far do you want to go? Lessons from a common sense billionaire. Great title. I love it. Tell us about the grocery store, John. How did you get started? It’s one of the best stories. I love it. Go ahead and tell it.

28:35 John Catsimatidis : I was growing up in Harlem. My father came over to America. I was six months old, and we were paying $48 a month rent, and my father was a bus boy because he didn’t qualify to be a waiter because he didn’t speak English well. He spoke it’s hanging fluently. He spoke Greek fluently, but no English. So I used to watch television, and I used to watch and see what Park Avenue was like, what what it was like on the other side of the fence. And I said to myself, Wow, I want to grow up, and I want to be able to escape from Harlem and have a better life, and that’s basically how my thoughts were in the early days.

29:27 Jim Beach : And what was your very first job? First business?

29:33 John Catsimatidis : Well, my very first job is I worked for a quasi cousin of mine in the early days in a hardware store, and he taught me how to make keys, how to blend paints, and it was a summer job. I was like, 14 years old. Then I worked for a guy that I called cousin Tony. He wasn’t really my cousin. He. But I called him cousin Tony, and he taught me the grocery business. And I’m a man of extremes. I was ready to sleep on the couch for the whole summer before I went to college, and my mother got me the job, threw me off the couch, and I started working 70 hours a week at 90 cents an hour, and I wanted to take driving lessons, and the driving lessons were like $28 an hour. So something didn’t make sense. I had to work 28 hours to pay for one hour driving lesson. And look escaping escaping Harlem was important thing to me

30:45 Jim Beach : and the grocery store eventually you bought out your the other half and owned entirely correct.

30:53 John Catsimatidis : Yes, my my cousin Tony sold me half of a store that he was partners with his uncle, and he didn’t want to have family problems. He didn’t want to have problems with his uncle. I became a partner when I was a junior or senior in college, and I never had any problems with his uncle. And you know the definition of that is when partners make money, they have no problems. When partners lose money, there’s always a problem.

31:26 Jim Beach : Yes, and how did you start getting other stores? By the age of 24 you had 10 stores that you were running, 25 million a year in revenue. Where did the other stores come from? Did you start them or buy out other people.

31:41 John Catsimatidis : Well, what happened was that a lot of people, I was successful. I took that one store. We were successful. We made money. Partners were happy. And I remember my egg man, little Aaron Goldberg. He says to me, there’s an empty store down the block on 87th Street. So I went down there, looked at the store. It was a successful store for for 20 years, the landlord wanted to increase the rent by $300 or $1,000 and guess what they owe. The owners got up and left. So me, I was willing to make less money and work hard, so I took the store and made that a success. And that was the first red apple store on 87th Street, right?

32:34 Jim Beach : And eventually, I think I saw that there were, how many of those 300 gas stations. You turned that into how many supermarkets?

32:46 John Catsimatidis : By the age of 24 I had 10 stores. And I started, you know, just from other people selling it to,

32:56 Jim Beach : yes, that was and you continued to grow it, and also started in gas stations. When did your love of real estate develop?

33:06 John Catsimatidis : Well, and I found out when my leases were up in the supermarkets and landlords would, would not, some of them would not, would double the rent, triple rent, quadruple the rent. So I realized you did not have a business unless you own the real estate. So I started buying the real estate about 1977 I bought my first piece of real estate, and then I separated it. I had the real estate business and I had the supermarket business. And what happened? I bought in 1977 I ended up in when the world was coming to an end in New York City. I ended up buying about 10 pieces of real estate. I spent $5 million in 1977 which was a lot of money, and I woke up one day by five years later, and was worth

33:56 Jim Beach : 100 million good investment. And today, what is your real estate worth?

34:03 John Catsimatidis : Real estate is worth multi billions, probably two, $3 billion right?

34:08 Jim Beach : I’m very concerned that commercial real estate will not recover because too many of the businesses are simply going to let the employees stay at home. What are your thoughts on it?

34:21 John Catsimatidis : I think those people that let their employees stay home are not great CEOs. Short the stock if you have Chairman like that, and it takes a tough Chairman a tough CEO. Look what happened to other conglomerates. Look what happened to it. Look what happened to GE look what happened to Verizon and look what happened to Kodak. Look what happened to Xerox. It takes a top CEO to keep a company going.

34:54 Jim Beach : What about you? Makes you tough?

34:58 John Catsimatidis : Common Sense. I am tough, but I am fair. I love our employees, I love our people, and I work hard. I never, not one of my short, short sights. As a CEO, I never fire anybody. You really have to try real hard to get fired

35:18 Jim Beach : in this place, in the late 2000s 2000 well, you actually earlier, you bought a lot of oil and gas. You bought United Refining Company. Are you still a fan of oil and gas in today’s world where there’s so much environmental pressure against it?

35:39 John Catsimatidis : Well, let me tell you, in 1982 83 I, you know, I love the aviation business, I started a company that eventually became NetJets, 800 airplanes. My partner, Jim Jacobs was running and Warren Buffett bought it. I owned capital airlines and a real a real airline, and when the airline was going out of business, we sold it. And guess what? I broke you know, I had tears in my eyes because I had at the age of 3334 I was running a company that was worldwide, all over the world, and I have to come back to New York and worry about running a bunch of grocery stores. So when the opportunities came up, we ended up buying an oil company that had 40 gas stations, an oil refinery, and it was in bankruptcy. I bought it. We ended up buying pantry pride supermarkets Because Ron Perlman was selling pantry fries, because he was using the money from pantry pride to buy Revlon. And then we also bought prestige from the Southland company because they had 7000 convenience stores, and they only had 47 supermarkets. So they said, the heck, you know, 47 supermarkets. So they sold them to me. So we all we bought Christie’s from Southland. We took United refining out of bankruptcy and paid the creditors 100 cents on $1 we bought pantry pride, and we gave money to Ron Perlman to buy Revlon, and we did that within a year to a year and a half after I gave up the capital airlines and lost my worldwide operation at the age of 3334

37:36 Jim Beach : 2009 He ran for mayor. Why did you switch parties? Well, in 2009

37:44 John Catsimatidis : Blumberg was the mayor of the city of New York for two terms, and then all of a sudden, I’m I’m running, and he wakes up, he says, I’m going to run for a third term. And I said, Well, God bless you. You know I’m not going to run against you, because you did a good job for the first eight years. So I did not run in 2009

38:04 Jim Beach : but in 2013

38:07 John Catsimatidis : I did run for mayor. I spent $12 million of my own money. I came pretty close, and I at the end of the day, I hate to say it this way, New Yorkers lost. Bill de Blasio won, but New York City lost. I like Bill de Blasio as a person, but New York City lost.

38:33 Jim Beach : Well, he did not turn out to have a good run as a mayor. We can all look at that now. So what political party do you associate with now? I was a bill

38:44 John Catsimatidis : clinton Democrat. I love Bill Clinton, one of the smartest guys I know, and I did support when my daughter married President Nixon’s grandson, I figured, we might as well have peace of peace, like the Thanksgiving Day table, and I switched to being a Republican,

39:05 Jim Beach : and you’ve been pretty happy with some of the latest Republican candidates. Who’s your candidate for 24

39:13 John Catsimatidis : Oh, I don’t have I figured, look, I am pro America. I am pro common sense Democrats. I am pro common sense Republicans, and I think we’re going to wait out and see who’s running. Because I want what’s good for New York. I want what’s good for our country, and I want what’s good for the world. So I think common sense has to prevail.

39:37 Jim Beach : Okay, interesting. Would you vote? Would you vote for Trump if he were to run again?

39:46 John Catsimatidis : Donald Trump, I know for over 40 years, I learned a lot from Donald Trump, and I learned a lot not to do that Donald Trump does. And my advice to Donald Trump was, look, tell people how good you are. Not how bad your opponent is, and that was the best advice I ever gave Donald Trump.

40:06 Jim Beach : All right, I would certainly agree with that. That is his biggest problem. And then, why did you decide not to run for governor? I thought you were looking at the governor’s race in 22 I think that, you know, Hochul was so weak. What was your thoughts then about not running I thought you could have taken it that time.

40:24 John Catsimatidis : Well, a lot of people said I could have taken it, but I was transitioning our company, ready for my son to take over, ready for my daughter to take over. So I was in a transition mode to have my son and my daughter take over, and that way I would be freer to be able to do whatever I want in politics or in the world.

40:51 Jim Beach : And what do you want? What do you want to do next? You have another chapter to write.

40:57 John Catsimatidis : I have one more chapter to write, and I think we got to make sure we have world peace and we don’t blow up each other.

41:03 Jim Beach : Well, we got some crazies out there that are going to try absolutely

41:10 John Catsimatidis : and I worry about it. And I worry that I have, you know, I have a five o’clock show every day on WABC radio, and I have common sense some Democrats, common sense Republicans on it every day. And you know what we do? We argue with each other between five o’clock and six o’clock. And you know what we’re doing six o’clock, we hug each other, and we have a drink together, and we have a hug, and we hug. And to say that same way that Bill Clinton did with Newt Gingrich, the same way that Ronald Reagan did with Chip O’Neill.

41:46 Jim Beach : I love that. I wish that were happening more in this world. It’s something that we we desperately, desperately,

41:51 John Catsimatidis : it’s happening. It’s happening at WABC Radio studios every day at five o’clock and and we’re getting the message out, because we become the number one show at five o’clock.

42:03 Jim Beach : Who are you more worried about Xi at China or Putin in Russia?

42:09 John Catsimatidis : I think they both have enough common sense not to push the button and not to have nuclear one.

42:15 Jim Beach : Okay, what about just a small little invasion of Taiwan? Not a big nuclear or just a small little invasion of Taiwan.

42:22 John Catsimatidis : I think it could happen. I believe that. The fact is, they haven’t done it yet, because they don’t want to create a world Pearl, and they might take over Taiwan and give us a 99 year lease, just like they did in Hong Kong. That way we don’t have to worry about who dies for 99 years.

42:47 Jim Beach : Oh, that would be nice. What’s the best advice that anyone’s ever given you, John,42:54 John Catsimatidis : oh, my god, the best advice anybody’s given me is don’t jump to conclusions. Take a deep breath, think it out before shooting from the hip

43:09 Jim Beach : I wish they did that as well. Yes, and I agree. What type of entrepreneurship are you more? I don’t know if I had the opportunity now to start a business, totally bootstrap it myself, with no investors, no outside help, but it’s going to take me 10 years to get there, or I bring in investors and do it in three years. Which one of those do you choose?

43:38 John Catsimatidis : I think you do it in 10 years, because that’s the way I did it. And, you know, don’t forget, I been the CEO for 54 years. I own 100% of the companies, and otherwise you’re going to end up owning 2% of the companies.

43:57 Jim Beach : Do you think that a brand new startup. Say Tesla should be worth more than Chevrolet, General Motors, Ford and whoever Chrysler. I don’t even know who owns Chrysler anymore, but all three of those do not add up to Tesla. Is that right? Does that make sense?

44:15 John Catsimatidis : I admire, I admire Elon Musk. I think he’s a one smart guy. I think he’s a visionary, and I hope he does a great job with Twitter, and I think time will tell, but I think overall, I think he’ll be a successful guy.

44:34 Jim Beach : What do you think about someone like Steve Jobs, who’s incredibly successful but not very popular along the way. He told a lot of people to how stupid they were. But on the other hand, he created billion dollar 100 billion dollar industries. Is being a jerk?

44:54 Unknown Speaker : No, because he ended up paying for it in

44:57 Jim Beach : the wrong way. How so do you think the. Did that cost him his life? Yes, he was

45:03 John Catsimatidis : a jerk. He didn’t get the price of the proper medical attention. He believed in he believed in Mickey Mouse, and it’s okay to believe in Mickey Mouse, but, you know, stay alive, otherwise you’re not going to be able to do anything about it.

45:22 Jim Beach : There’s a great television show now on HBO called succession John, where they talk about a rich billionaire and his worthless children. You ended up with kids that you still like.

45:36 John Catsimatidis : How I love my children. I watched succession, and theoretically, is supposed to be the under the theoretical Murdoch, yes, and I watched it, I was very sad about it, because I was very sad about the family was not really family. I admired his brother in the first season that his brother says, I’m the brother.

46:03 Jim Beach : I’m gonna vote with you. And what about being a dad? Do you think is important? How do you raise good kids? So I’m so proud that you still love your kids. How why love?

46:16 John Catsimatidis : Love, love. You know, I made sure that my kids went to New York University. They went, which is 10 minutes from my apartment, and I didn’t want to send them off to far off places. I want to be able to hug my kids every day, and if they know that you want to hug them every day, I think it makes for a better family.

46:40 Jim Beach : So when I went to college, I decided to go as far away from my house as I could, and escaped to Vermont from Georgia, and then to go to graduate school, I went to Hawaii. Does that mean I don’t love my parents? I think you were looking

46:56 John Catsimatidis : to escape and from a parent’s point of view, and you were young and you didn’t realize what you wanted, but from a parent’s point of view, I want my kids with within arm’s reach.

47:10 Jim Beach : Now that I’m a parent, I do too. I’m really, really mad at my 23 year old daughter, John. She did something I don’t approve of. How do I handle it? What do I do? John, we haven’t talked in five months because of this. I’m devastated.

47:27 Unknown Speaker : It happens. It happens with my daughter all the time,

47:31 Jim Beach : and how do you get past it?

47:34 John Catsimatidis : You have to reiterate love. You have to just move on. And then a week later, from whatever the incident was, everybody forgets it. Forgets about it, and you as long as you’re in the same room, you give each other a hug.

47:50 Jim Beach : Are you concerned about the younger generation? Do the Gen Z work hard enough they expect to get promoted after being there for a month. Do you feel generational conflict?

48:05 John Catsimatidis : I think that the generation that right now has a lot of lessons to learn, and us that we grew up, I grew up in the 50s and 60s, that our way of life. I don’t want to change it for the American kids of the future.

48:26 Jim Beach : What is the most important thing in your life? Your passion? The top three passions that you think of is red. One of them,

48:36 Unknown Speaker : let’s, let’s put it this way, family, I guess, is always number one, family company, country,

48:49 John Catsimatidis : or should we put country before company, very close and then peaceful coexistence for The world.

49:00 Jim Beach : All right, are you a farm to table believer? Do you like to are you a foodie?

49:08 John Catsimatidis : I love food. I’ve been overweight too much, too long during my life, but now, when I reach the age of 70 plus, I eat, and I tell all my friends right now we eat what’s good for us, what’s going to allow us to live to the age of 100 and not necessarily

49:28 Jim Beach : eat what we like. What do you miss the most? What have you had to give up that you miss

49:36 John Catsimatidis : pizza and pasta?

49:39 Jim Beach : Yes, and what’s your favorite Greek dish?

49:43 John Catsimatidis : Oh, I love some. I love Greek food. I love Italian food. My favorite Greek dish? Oh, my God, I would say spinach pie is great. Cheese pies are great.

49:56 Jim Beach : How do you relax? John, do you relax? Do you take. Take time. You said you watch the TV show. I’m glad to hear that you just sit around and do nothing ever

50:07 John Catsimatidis : I hate doing nothing. I hate to have a day without accomplishment. I try to accomplish something every day. And how do I relax? Maybe on a on a Saturday night or Sunday night, we watched these new series on television, like succession, or like Tulsa. What was that one Tulsa, the Tulsa one with, with and, and I know when we watched succession last week, we were up to two o’clock in the morning watching it, when finally we said, Enough is enough?

50:44 Jim Beach : What about Yellowstone? Are you a Yellowstone fan? Have you seen that TV show with Kevin Costner?

50:49 John Catsimatidis : Not, yes, not yet. But we’re looking into, we’re looking into starting to watch it. The one I was disappointed in was I used to watch when we mean you were growing up dynasty, oh, yeah, and then the new dynasty, which is the woke culture, was very I almost grew up. What do you think about being woke? I think people have the freedom to do whatever they want, but common sense has to prevail, and that’s what I you know, it’s like saying I’m not, you know, when I ran for mayor, I’m not against gays. People can do whatever they want. That’s why people came to America, because the freedom of speech, the freedom of doing whatever you want, but common sense has to prevail.

51:44 Jim Beach : How many different genders are there? To me, there’s two. Yeah, do you? Do you even try to understand what they’re talking about with these other well, I

51:56 John Catsimatidis : can understand, I can understand that some people are God has created them where it is confusion in the agenda, and I can understand that. And our Creator, and I believe we’re much too complex not to be able to believe in a creator is mistakes are made sometimes, but the purpose of our creator was to propagate the species, and it’s male or female. Do you

52:26 Jim Beach : think that the average billionaire is too egotistical to be a good Christian, a good Jew, a good Buddhist, good Muslim? Is it hard to be rich and also still have a spiritual core.

52:42 John Catsimatidis : Well, you know, there’s two ways of getting rich, working hard and using your common sense, like I always said, and the other one is just get lucky. I did it the old fashioned way worked hard.

52:55 Jim Beach : That is a great way to sum it up. How far do you want to go? Lessons from a common sense billionaire, sir, how do you want us to buy the book? Find out more about you?

53:06 John Catsimatidis : Well, book is on amazon.com, on bonds and nobles. And how do you you know my advice on how to make your next billion. And you can also go to WABC radio.com, and we have it in our bookstore, and we just look. I want common sense to prevail. I’m there to help you understand how I made it. But there are sacrifices along with making it.

53:37 Jim Beach : John castelmasters, thank you so much for being with us. Great stuff, amazing American life and the book to go with. Thank you so much for sharing, sir.

53:47 John Catsimatidis : Well, thank you for having me, and I look forward to meeting you in person soon.

53:51 Jim Beach : I would like that very much. We are out of time for today, but back tomorrow. Be safe, everyone. Bye now.