February 13, 2026 – Relationship Currency Ravi Rajani and Speaking in Public Isobel Rimmer

0:04 Intro 1 : Broadcasting from am and FM stations around the country. Welcome to the Small Business Administration award winning school for startups radio where we talk all things small business and entrepreneurship. Now here is your host, the guy that believes anyone can be a successful entrepreneur, because entrepreneurship is not about creativity, risk or passion. Jim Beach,

0:26 Jim Beach : hello everyone. Welcome to another exciting edition of School for startups radio. We got a great show for you today, and I know you’re going to enjoy it and learn a lot. First up, we have Ravi Rajani, great, great interview talking about relationships. Relationship currency, which is a new term for me, and how to improve them. It’s a great you’re going to learn a lot about currency. Relationship currency, it’s a new topic. And then Isobel reamer is going to be with us about how to give better speeches, how to talk better in public, and what the benefits of that could be. She is outstanding. A great show. We’re going to get started right now. Here we go. You know, one of the hardest things in life is communicating and communicating well, whether it’s with your employees or your spouse or your kids or whoever, very excited to welcome a guest who’s going to help us communicate better. Please welcome Ravi Rajani to the show. He is an international keynote speaker, transformational coach and a LinkedIn learning instructor. 65,000 people have taken his classes on consciousness and charismatic communication. Is widely received as one of the world’s top communication experts, and he has a new book out that is well, five star reviewed on that Amazon place called relationship currency, five communication habits for limitless influence and business success. Ravi, welcome to the show. How you doing today?

1:58 Ravi Rajani : I’m good. Thank you, Jim. I’m good, my friend. How are you?

2:00 Jim Beach : I am very well. Thank you. What is relationship currency?

2:08 Ravi Rajani : Bitcoin? Actually, that was my question. Back to you, which was when you first saw the name relationship currency. What came to mind?

2:22 Jim Beach : I did something nice for somebody that I’m a friend with, and that helps our relationship build and become better.

2:32 Ravi Rajani : Okay, not too far off. Not too

2:34 Ravi Rajani : far off. I love it. What my definition, personal definition of relationship currency, is the following, and it’s the idea that relationships, I’m sure you agree Jim, are sacred, and the word currency carries connotations of transaction, however, side by side relationship, currency is about engaging in a meaningful value exchange that helps the person opposite you achieve more of what they desire without self interest. And the idea here is that the energy of abundance will organically find you in return, if

3:09 Jim Beach : you do it right, if you do it right, okay, in abundance, you mean that you will get good karma and get repaid somehow.

3:20 Unknown Speaker : Yes, exactly receive your definition of success.

3:24 Jim Beach : All right. And it has to be, is there a reciprocity to this? Is it?

3:30 Ravi Rajani : Yeah, I suppose in a

3:32 Ravi Rajani : shell, the best way to, if I were to trim it down here, what I’m talking about is when you meet somebody for the very first time, instead of leading with the idea of, Hey, how can I be interesting? The goal is to be interested in the human being opposite you. And I’m paraphrasing the famous quote by Dale Carnegie there. So credit where credit is due. And when we do that, we get to understand what somebody wants in their season, or rather, in this season of their life. Now it could be a promotion, it could be it could be more sales, it could be more partnerships, whatever it could be. And our job in that moment is trying to help them achieve more of what they desire without self interest. And if you do that right, you will earn what I call relationship currency,

4:21 Jim Beach : all right? And the five habits that leads to this? Well, first, before that, what do you think is the benefit of relationship currency? Is there an ROI that we can measure this by? How do we know if it’s working? Well, I think here’s

4:38 Ravi Rajani : how I see it. Not even I think here’s how I see it, in a world where we’ve become addicted to AI technology, more more more, which isn’t bad, as long as it’s grounded in intentionality, what often comes with that is forgetting that. Since the beginning of time, the one currency that has always mattered in any area of our life is relationships behind you wanting to get that promotion at work, there’s another human being that has a sign off on whether that goes if you want to get that big sale inside of your company, there’s another human being on our phone who holds the purse strings. And I could go on. So really, the idea here is it’s about thinking about the ROI of relationships, but it’s about realizing that in everything you do, another human being is involved. And really, we are all in the people business. No matter what you do. You’re in the people business.

5:41 Jim Beach : That’s very true. Good point. All right, can we go through the five habits now?

5:46 Ravi Rajani : Let’s do it. Let’s do it. So Habit number one. And what I’ll do here is I’ll talk you through the name of each habit, and then you can tell me which one excites you the most, and we can dig deeper there. But habit one is transform your story. Habit two is ask conscious questions. Habit three is unearth your charisma. Habit four is tell stories that inspire change. And then habit five is become the trusted guide. So is there one of those that excites you the most that we can dig into? I want to go through all five.

6:18 Jim Beach : Okay, let’s do it. Let’s do it. Transform your internal story. Start with number one. Yes, indeed, my friend. So when you go to your kitchen, when you go inside your kitchen, and you go for the cupboard on the very, very top, you open it, you pick it up, you’ll see a

6:39 Ravi Rajani : jar, maybe, and that jar has a label on it, and that label will say, Okay, this is name of the product. It’s got this set of ingredients, etc, etc, and that’s a good thing like Jim, because we don’t want to mistake jam for hot sauce or for ketchup or whatever it is, right? We want to make sure that what we see is what we get. We want to ensure that the identity of that product is fixed, and that’s great. But when we try and apply, when we try and apply that same logic to human beings, it gets a little bit tricky, in my opinion. So what I’m really talking about at the very beginning of this habit is the idea that when we label ourselves as human beings, it can leave us playing small. It can leave us shrinking our desires that it can leave us engaging in behaviors to actually be congruent with the identity that we’ve created. Now I’ll give an example. Somebody may say,

7:36 Jim Beach : I am an entrepreneur, or I am a leader, or, for

7:40 Ravi Rajani : example, I am an author. And let’s talk about that one for a second. I am an author. So I remember this was my first book, and I said to myself, Okay, I want to embody the identity of a prolific author. So I would say I am an author. I proudly wore that label. But very quickly, what I decided to do was switch that to I’m someone who writes books, and I’ll tell you why. If I said I’m an author and I’m only an author and all I do is write books, then do I say no to speaking engagement? Do I say no to interviews like this? For example? Because if I’m simply defined by that one label, I may say no to everything else. So the idea here is to expand your identity, expand it so that you can really embody the fact that you’re a multifaceted human being. And then what I then go on in that book to say is that labels is the first thing we should look at. Where are we labeling ourselves? And then that leads to a very set of beliefs and stories that we tell ourselves, which can shift our behaviors on a day to day basis, enough habits and inside of the book, I’ve actually got a 10 step process to rewiring, reframing the story that you tell yourself about you being a speaker, presenter or communicator.

9:03 Jim Beach : I also know that that can be a really, really mean insult to say to somebody, your internal story is all wrong. That’s an incredible indictment.

9:14 Ravi Rajani : It can be, it can be, however, that, well, the way I’m looking at this Jim is for me. I’m not saying to the reader that, hey, your internal story is wrong. I say that we’re human beings, and just like you, I’m a work in progress, and in different seasons of my life, I’ve told myself certain stories, given myself certain labels, which haven’t always served me, and what I now like to do is this, and then I take their hand out say, Hey, if you feel that you may be somebody who has engaged in this behavior in the past, and come with me, and I invite the reader to get introspective and for them to figure out if there’s a story that. Are telling themselves, which isn’t serving them. So versus saying, hey, you need to do better, you’re telling yourself a negative story. It’s an invitation.

10:12 Jim Beach : All right, for instance, yes, I still think that’s a great insult. Someone said that to me one time one of my cousins, and it really hurt my feelings. And so anyway, if you want to really hurt someone, use that as a insult. Number two, conscious questions. Ask conscious questions.

10:35 Ravi Rajani : There we have it. Well, you know, it’s funny that this is the next habit. So going back to Jim, what you just mentioned, I’m sorry you have to go through that, my friend, that that doesn’t sound like a fun experience. And for me, what it’s funny is having actually talk about in habit three is

10:52 Jim Beach : we have to be mindful of leading

10:56 Ravi Rajani : with our opinions. Actually, I don’t know if I talk about this in the book. I don’t think this, this this bit. Maybe, I think this is in the parking lot. Maybe I release it as a bonus section someday. But the idea here is, instead of projecting and saying, hey, you need to do this, or hey, this is a story that didn’t serve you, it’s about helping somebody in a way that they would like to be helped, and often that could be listening to them, asking them questions or saying, Hey, would you like my perspective? And normally, what I found is any one of those three avenues is what somebody when they pick it’s somebody’s language of service. And the idea here is to support them using their language of service. And actually, I do, I do think I talk about that in habit three, but I digress. So habit two is asking conscious questions. Now you’re probably thinking, Jim, what do you mean by conscious now, the way I find it is questions which are grounded in positive intentionality. So I’ll give an example. I could say to you, Jim, hey, let me think of an example. Actually, let me let me explain this way, I could ask you a question which is intentionally designed to ensure that I receive a response which guides you down a very specific path, which helps my bank balance at the expense of yours. Or I could ask you a question to actually get to the heart of your truth. So one has positive intentionality, and the second has negative intentionality, if we had to give it a label. Now, there’s several different types of conscious questions that I teach inside of the book, but the first one is something called a story worthy question, aka an open ended question. And when we do this right, when we ask a story worthy question in a conversation or whatever the context might be, two things can happen. Number one, somebody shares a story with you, which is great, but scenario two is actually the Holy Grail. This is when somebody doesn’t say a word. It’s when they pause, it’s

13:03 Ravi Rajani : when they reflect. I said, Wow, I’ve

13:05 Ravi Rajani : never actually been asked a question like that, and you really have them sitting in a creative and reflective state. So one type of story worthy question, or rather, one example of one could be say, if somebody is on a call with a prospect, and they could say, Hey, Jim, do you want to switch supplies? And then you’d say, yes, no. And then rapport has been funded and the conversation has hit an abrupt end. The other way we could do that is by asking a story worthy question. So we could say, Hey, Jim, could you? Could you tell me about the moment when you first sense trouble with your existing supplier? Oh, yeah, Robbie, I remember it was, it was last December, and I remember they hit us with an 18% price increase, and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, you’re having them exchange a story with you, which paves the way for a more meaningful conversation. So that’s a snippet of what’s inside of that habit asking conscious questions.14:09 Jim Beach : And is there a proper way to respond or an improper way to respond to that kind of a question? Tell me more. What do you mean? I don’t know if you’re if you are treating me this way and trying to learn more about me and have a good conversation with me, and, you know, learn and become friends or whatever, or business associates, it seems like asking the right Questions. Oh, I don’t know. Let’s move on. Forget it. I’m going to edit all right, so let’s move on to Habit number three, charisma. Is it possible to become more charismatic? Isn’t that something you’re born with?

14:58 Ravi Rajani : No. I’m curious, what do you think? Do you think it’s something that we’re born with from your lens, or do you feel as though it’s something that can be cultivated?

15:07 Jim Beach : I think it’s both. I think that you could be born with it and it’d be very easy for you, but I think that you could also develop it if you worked at it.

15:18 Ravi Rajani : That’s interesting. That’s interesting. I received that. I received that definition. I mean, for me, I can safely say, growing up, I had charisma all wrong. I had it all wrong, terribly wrong. I used to think it was about accolades, award achievements, being in the spotlight and look, I give my younger self the grace for doing the best he could with the consciousness that he had at the time, with the tools that he had. But as I see it now, in this season of my life, I see charisma as an innate superpower that every single one of us develops, which helps others feel significant in our presence. So to clean that up and be even clearer, what I’m talking about is behaving in a way in the workplace which makes people feel like they matter when they’re around you. Now I was delivering a speech very recently, and we were talking about, okay, the definition of charisma, but how can we actually display charisma and make somebody feel significant as a leader? And one of the things that you talk about in the book is learning how to give genuine compliments. And I emphasize the word genuine because too many compliments or inauthentic compliments. Yeah, that’s not a good look. That is not a good look. So we’re talking about genuine compliments. So I’ll give an example of a compliment. So let’s say, Jim, I see you at a conference, and I see you delivering, or having delivered, a really impactful speech. So I walk home to you and I say, Jim, that was, ah, that was just an incredible speech. Well done. And you say, thank you. Great, cool. How are you? How’s the event? Etc, etc. That’s fine, but what that compliment is missing is three things, authenticity, specificity and impact, aka my ASI framework, and the authenticity piece stands for leading with a genuine observation. The specificity piece stands for quit being generic and I the impact piece stands for share how this specific moment impacted you. So let’s go back to this example of you giving a speech at an event. I could walk over to you instead, I could say Jim, that was the best keynote I’ve heard at this conference over the past two days, that story that you shared in the beginning about your cousin and how they simply told you that you had a story that you were telling yourself and it didn’t serve you, and how you shared it with such vulnerability and tied it back to the problem you solve inside of your business was actually really inspiring. And hey, it’s actually made me realize that I need to share more stories inside of my own keynote. So hey, thank you for that.

18:15 Jim Beach : Did you feel the difference between the two? Oh yeah, the specificity is huge. And I just want to throw in that person that told me in my story wrong is a preacher and a counselor, and that even makes it worse to me, you know, the fact that she didn’t realize that, that she was very, very, very hurtful and didn’t realize that she needed to apologize. And I’m just shocked that she’s a counselor. I just can’t imagine getting counseling from her.

18:54 Ravi Rajani : I hate you, my friend. I do, and I am actually curious No, because this actually ties in with something, as I said, that we talk about inside of the unearth your charisma piece, which is communicating in the language that, or rather, in the service language of the person opposite you. What could that person have done differently? Could they have Would you have preferred them to ask you questions or simply listen or actually say nothing at all. What would you have wanted in that moment?

19:23 Jim Beach : I listed very, very specific things that she had done that hurt me, and so I the only acceptable answer would have been an apology.

19:34 Ravi Rajani : Understood, understood.

19:38 Ravi Rajani : Well, I’m sorry you didn’t receive that. It sounds as though that was a moment which was hoping, hopefully a teaching lesson for for your cousin, or a learning lesson for your cousin.

19:49 Jim Beach : Well, obviously not. You know number four. Have it? Number four tell stories that inspire change. Mm.

20:00 Ravi Rajani : Hmm. So really, what we’re talking about here is that whether you are selling an idea,

20:09 Ravi Rajani : a vision, a

20:11 Ravi Rajani : product or service. Number one, I say the word selling intentionally because I do believe that often we have a negative connotation associated with selling, but when we’re doing that, what we’re really trying to do is inspire change. We’re trying to move somebody from an existing set of behaviors and thus habits to substituting them for different ones, and hopefully ones which influence their life in a more positive way. Now, one of the best ways we can inspire change, inspire action in another person is through impactful storytelling. And one of the stories that I actually teach inside of the habit, inside of the book is a social proof story, which is ultimately saying, Hey, is somebody just like you, who had a similar desire, but then experienced a very similar struggle which prevented them from achieving the desire, and then they had this big aha moment which shifted everything. And this is what happened to them, and it’s learning really, how to craft a narrative which is wrapped around the idea of social proof in a compelling way, and in less than two minutes. Now, if I give you one takeaway from that, the number one question I often get from clients is, okay, you just heard my story, ready? What can I do to level it up? And I say, well, there’s many things that we could look at, but if there was one thing I could give you, my friend, to actually level it up and elevate your story. Or rather, one thing I believe it’s missing is a story arc, a very simple story arc, and we actually went through it, in a sense, just now. But the story arc I teach inside of the book is the four C’s. So context, conflict, change, conclusion context is where we introduce the main character and their desire their conflict is where we introduce the villain. The change is a big aha moment. And the conclusion is where the main character goes from pain to glory. And then the 4c actually wraps up into, or rather wraps into a more extensive story framework that I teach. But if I give one tip to anybody right now that is listening to this, I would say, ensure that your story solves a problem for the people that you’re speaking to. And ask yourself the following question, Is My Story designed to give me significance or make my audience feel significant? Once you understand that and you start looking through every story through that lens that you craft, it’s easier to ensure that your story is connected to a problem that your audience is struggling with.

23:02 Jim Beach : Great advice. Number five, become the trusted guide.

23:07 Ravi Rajani : So when I say the word trusted guide, I’m curious what comes

23:10 Jim Beach : up for you. Jim Sherpa,

23:14 Ravi Rajani : ah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly that

23:18 Jim Beach : documentary last night. Oh, really, yes, it’s amazing how many people die there and just get left. You know, there are bodies. There’s hundreds of bodies just littering the place. Really, wow. Well, because you know, if say your climbing partner gives out and can’t make it anymore, there’s zero chance of you making it if you try to help them, like if you put them on your back, you’re both gonna die. Or there’s just not a solution. You know, it’s just that dangerous. You shouldn’t be there in the first place.

23:54 Unknown Speaker : And you know, it’s

23:59 Jim Beach : just, it’s self preservation, you can’t help someone and still survive. And so the Sherpa that did lost both hands and both feet. Wow.

24:13 Ravi Rajani : The Sherpas who actually went and tried to help

24:16 Jim Beach : their someone lost their hands and their feet. Oh my gosh,

24:22 Ravi Rajani : wow, wow. And they live to tell the tale,

24:26 Jim Beach : yes, yes. But the person, the person they were trying to save, didn’t survive. And so now I’ve lost my hands and my feet, and you’re dead. You know, I’m not going to try to help the next time, the next person is not going to try to help. And so Robbie, they’re even like, when you’re climbing there’s you go to the dead body, the third dead body, and turn left. I mean, they even use it as road sign markers. And you know points of distinction, so you know where you are. Wow. You. That’s really horrible.

25:02 Ravi Rajani : I can’t even imagine. Is that on Netflix or Amazon Prime or one of

25:06 Jim Beach : those? I found it on YouTube.

25:08 Ravi Rajani : Okay, interesting, interesting. Well, yeah, I mean, in this, in this scenario, it’s, it’s a little bit less high stakes, for sure, and what we’re really talking about in become the trusted guide in habit five is behaving in a way that’s grounded with a long term mindset, because one of the core themes inside of the books is that the villain in our story today is instant gratification, and what that really breeds often is transactional behavior. And what are we what we’re really talking about there, rather is short term behavior that kills long term reputation. So it’s about behaving in a way that really serves the person opposite you, and without a short term mindset, once again, helping them realize their desires without self interest. Going back to our definition of relationship currency from the top of the show, there’s various practices that I teach inside of that habit to help shift one’s behavior and thus form a positive habit. But it’s interesting, one of the practices, which has been quite, quite popular rather, is learning how to answer a question that you don’t know. And it’s interesting when you speak to or rather, through my work, when I’ve spoken to different leaders, ones who I’ve coached, trained or just met, one of the things that they often struggle with is how to answer a question from their team member, a prospect or a client that they don’t have an answer for, but they they looked upon as somebody who should have all of the answers. So there’s this internal pressure to look like a superhero and consistently save the day. So one of the things I actually talk about inside of that practice is how to own your truth and say, Hey, that is an interesting question that, on reflection, I don’t have an answer for but here’s what I’m going to do after this call. I’m going to do some digging, and I’m going to try and find you the answer, and if that fails, I’ll introduce you to the right person who can get you an answer. Does that sound fair enough? And something along those lines. And what we’re really talking about there is only your truth, staying in your zone of genius, but then becoming the expert in finding the expert, because that I can become somebody who adds value in that conversation. Doesn’t allow ego to get in the way. And really, you become somebody who embodies the role of a trusted guide. And funny enough, you can inspire others to actually put their guard down, increase their vulnerability. And reciprocity will show because they will be more vulnerable with you in return. So various practices are inside of that habit to help somebody once again become the trusted guide.

27:59 Jim Beach : Absolutely fascinating. Great, great work. Robbie, I love this. Unfortunately, we’re out of time and we need to wrap it up. How do we find out more about you? Get in touch. Get a copy of the book.

28:10 Ravi Rajani : Thank you. Well, the book is sold wherever you buy books, my friend. So if you feel called to actually dig deeper into relationship, currency, Amazon is probably the best place where you can grab that or you can actually listen to the book on Audible, is narrated by myself. So yeah, relationship guys, the five communication habits for limitless influence and business success is the name Fantastic.

28:34 Jim Beach : Thank you so much for being with us. We’d love to have you back. And thanks a lot. Thank you, my friend, and we will be right back.

28:50 Jim Beach : We are back and again. Thank you so very much for being with us. Very excited to introduce another great guest. Please welcome Isabelle reamer to the show. She is the founder of master class training, and has spent the last 25 years or so working with business leaders, entrepreneurs and coaches to help them present and speak better. She has a new book out called present with presence. Everything you need to plan, prepare and deliver with impact in any situation. Isabelle, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

29:24 Isobel Rimmer : I’m good, Jim. Thank you very much, very well indeed, and a pleasure to be here today. So thank you for inviting me.

29:29 Jim Beach : Oh, it’s our pleasure. Why do people hate presenting so much?

29:36 Isobel Rimmer : Wow, there’s a word for it. You know, glossophobia, which is not a fear of glossing, glossophobia a fear of public speaking. And apparently, over three quarters of the population suffer from it either kind of either called low touch, which they get a bit anxious, or full on. Some people would rather have their fingernails pulled out than stand up and. Speak, and it’s much more common than we realize, much more common for people. Wow, you got to go back to sort of cave man, cave woman times. The logic behind it is that our brains are protecting us, because when you’ve got lots of eyes looking at you, some of you are speaking to 1050, 100 people. That’s hostile, because if you go back in time, that would be a pack of wolves probably gonna eat you, or another tribe about to attack you with their spears. And so naturally, our brain goes, Hey, dangerous. And so instinctively, we either want to fight, freeze, fight or whatever, but we don’t want to stay there and talk to them, because everything in our brain and our reptilian they say, Get out of there now. And that’s where it comes from. It’s that fear that the focus is on you. So there’s a lot of people out there that really worry about it. Some of us now enjoy it. I used to be really worried about it. I don’t know whether you were Jim and you’re in your use Were you worried speaker? Have you always loved it?

31:05 Jim Beach : Isabel, I am the largest introvert on Earth. Ah, I as a child, the idea of speaking in front of someone was the scariest thing on earth to me. So I totally understand

31:19 Isobel Rimmer : there, you see, but you learned how to be able to do it. I think it was Warren Buffett once said that the ability to speak well in public and speak well and present, consider it an asset, and it’s an asset that will last you 50 or 60 years. And of course, if you don’t learn how to do it, it becomes a liability, and that liability will last you 50 or 60 years as well. So it’s worth investing the time and effort, and that’s really what what the book’s about. It’s like a recipe book that will help you go from nervous or even quite good speaking to confident and enjoying it and wanting to do more of

31:59 Jim Beach : it. So what’s the first ingredient of our RECIPE

32:03 Isobel Rimmer : PREPARATION, just the same as if you’re making a recipe or cooking, you know, you’ve got to get your ingredients together, you’ve got to put together your plan. You’ve got to make sure that you’ve got what you need, and once you’ve got what you need, then you’re set to go. And actually, it’s quite funny, because I often get calls and maybe from political parties or from businesses and things like, oh so and so’s got to do a big speaker event, or they’re going to be doing a sales kickoff, or whatever it is, and they get very nervous. Can you come and work with them and help them with their nerves? And I go, yes, of course, we can do that. But the first question I nearly always ask that speaker when I get to work with them, is, how do you prepare? And of course, most people don’t have a very good system, if they have one at all. And if you think about the preparation, once you know what you’re doing, once you know where you’re trying to go, once you know what you want your audience or the people you’re talking to, to go away thinking or feeling or saying or doing or knowing. It’s a bit like having a sat nav. You can relax, you can go on the journey, and if you get to a problem, you can go off piece a little bit and take a detour, because you know where you’re going. So the secret actually, is often in the preparation, in the planning.

33:16 Jim Beach : So when you talk about preparation, do you mean deck preparation or rehearsing. What do you mean?

33:25 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, even before you get to your slide decks, even before you get to your so there’s a framework that that I encourage, and a tool that’s known as Izzy’s diamond. And basically, if you know you’re going to be a speaking event, the first thing to do is to be clear on what your topic is. And most people for that, that’s the easy bit. Most people are talking about something that they know quite a lot about, and if you’re being asked to talk about something that you know nothing about, well, I’d suggest perhaps politely say no. Most people know their topic. That’s not the issue. But being clear on your topic, but then being really clear. First of all, who am I going to be speaking to my audience? What are they like? What sort of people are they? Where are we going to be doing it? And then a second step is always, what do you want them to go away, thinking, feeling, saying, doing or knowing as a result of what you’re going to talk about, and then your plan, you work out what are all the things I could possibly talk about on this topic to this audience to achieve those outcomes, and you capture those. And once you’ve done that, you edit back, and you edit back to maybe two or three key points that you want to make in your presentation. And then you weave in your stories, and then you weave in your examples, and then you work on your introduction. And then

34:50 Jim Beach : my in my way of doing it. Then you bring in your slides, if you need them, maybe you don’t need any. What do you maybe you’re the best made in. What are your thoughts on slides these days? I there’s, you know, slides with four or five bullet points and then maybe a slide with just a picture and no words on it. I’ve seen a lot of that recently. What are your thoughts on what a great slide deck looks Yeah, well, I

35:17 Isobel Rimmer : think again, you gotta think about your audience. And if you’re doing something virtually and it’s a webinar, or you’re going to be on screen or teams or zoom, sometimes you do need more slides because there’s not so much activity happening. But if you’re live or in person, you may need far fewer than you think.

35:34 Jim Beach : I mean, I’ve been around long enough sad really, but I’ve been around long enough to know that what we used to call a slide, we used to call it a visual aid.

35:46 Isobel Rimmer : And the purpose of a visual aid is not for the speaker to have their notes or their bullets and to know what they’re going to say next. It’s to help the audience understand what you’re saying, and when you pair it back to that, you’re right. It could well be that a story or a picture or an image is far more powerful than a series of bullet points. So for me, it’s about being very curious to where you need your slides if you need them, and you’ve got to be on those slides to help the audience retain that information or get your message and keep it as simple as possible. All right, too much out there. They’re reading the slide and they’re not listening to you.

36:31 Jim Beach : That’s right. I hate when they do that. Yes. How do you say that? Say again.

36:39 Isobel Rimmer : I call that a reading lesson with Mrs. Rimmer. Nobody wants a reading lesson with Mr. Beach or Mrs. Rimmer. Do they can read faster than we can talk, so it’s pointless?

36:50 Jim Beach : Yes, they can very much. So what about practice? How much practice do you recommend? Do you recommend doing it in front of people or just in front of the mirror? What about practicing?

37:00 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, really good point. Think about practicing. If you come across a man called Monty Roberts.

37:09 Isobel Rimmer : He’s the original horse whisperer, an American guy, amazing. And he always said, when your technique is good, practice is your greatest friend. If your technique is poor. Practice is your greatest enemy, because it’s just reinforcing something that’s not very good. So to your point of it’s actually, I think if you can speak to a real audience as part of your practice in rehearsal, that’s really helpful. If you can’t, then I think the next best thing, thing that I tend to encourage is you video yourself. Now, everybody goes, video it on your phone. Only you have to watch it. You can delete it afterwards. That’s absolutely fine. But film yourself and then when you come to watch it back, like a tips for this, play at the first time with no sound, and speed up the video. And just look at yourself and go, do I look convincing? Do I look compelling? Do I look engaging? Or are there sort of funny little things or ticks happening? You know, I throw my arms around too much, or do, or do I shuffle around the stage because you’ll see it on feed it up. Video, yes, that’s great. It works beautifully. So if you’re someone who throws your arms around and it’s distracting, you’ll see it now, a little bit of movement is not distracting, but you’ll see people shuffle, or you’ll see if people will have a tendency for a tick. Now, I say play it back the second time, but this time, just listen to the sound. Don’t look at the visual. Hello, the video. Just listen to yourself. And probably at the start you’ll go, oh, I don’t like my voice. Or would it like that? That’s normal. I don’t like my voice. I don’t feel like yours, but I think your voice is lovely, but you probably don’t like it. But you then can listen to your voice and think, Is my pitch right? Is my tone, right? Do I sound interesting? Is there what I call prosody? Is the voice going up and down, or is it a bit flat? Am I pausing in the right places? Could I make that more exciting? Could I go quieter and then you finally play it back, what I call normal mode. You’ve got the video, you’ve got the sound. You’ve got used to seeing yourself. You’re not looking one of those looks big. You’ve got used to listening to yourself, so you’re not so obsessed about your showing your sound. And you can be much more objective, and look at the video and go, yes, that I like, or that I’m going to change, or that I need to do differently, as opposed to going, Oh, it’s horrible, and that’s always where I encourage and I was working with some speakers recently, and I got them all to video themselves, and they all kind of went, Oh, we don’t like it. The next day. They said, You know what? It was so helpful. I said, Yes. I said, if you want to delete it afterwards. Go ahead. You haven’t got to stick it on YouTube. I’m going to share it with anyone. It’s just for you. Yeah, that’s my advice.

40:09 Jim Beach : Exercises that you use to work on these steps.

40:15 Isobel Rimmer : Well, it’s all in the book. It’s all in the book. But yeah, I mean lots of things that you can do, and exercises to warm up your voice, right?

40:27 Jim Beach : We teach a speaking class, and we did some training exercises where, for the first time, you’re only allowed to use your body. You’re not allowed to use your face or your voice, and you have to tell a story only using your body. And then we switch it. Now I’m telling a story only with your face. Your face is the only thing that gets to move. And then your voice, only. Your voice not allowed to move your body or your face. And then that practice yours, your tone and your, you know, speed and all of that. And we have them do exercises where they are running around acting like their favorite animal. And we were doing this one time at the Chamber of Commerce in Atlanta, and the governor walked in, and we were all walking around pretending we were elephants and lizards and stuff. And Governor got quite a laugh at us, but

41:26 Isobel Rimmer : absolutely that’s and that’s how we learn to be able to project through our body language, through our voice, through the words that we choose, in a way that’s much more powerful. That means you can go into AI when your favorite is, and you can create a script, and you can get to do your slides, but then you have to deliver it, and it’s got to be you, authentically you as well. And that’s what a lot of my training is around, helping people find their voice, helping them find their persona as a speaker.

41:59 Jim Beach : And what about that? The hardest part, the first 30 seconds. How do you get down that first 30 seconds? And do you recommend telling a joke to break the ice? How do you plan your first 30 seconds? Again?

42:14 Isobel Rimmer : I’ve got a tool for this. I’ve got a technique. I’ve got a recipe, if you like. And you think you could remember A, B, C, D,

42:24 Jim Beach : I don’t know. That’s quite a bit. Oh, wait, that’s my passion.

42:30 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, well, there you go, us and the rest of the world. So my introduction technique is A, B, C, D, and I spend a lot of time when I’m training people on getting the introduction right, for so many reasons, but mainly because you want to have the right impact. You want to get the attention of the audience, you’re probably at your most nervous so you can get that bit running smoothly and know exactly what you’re going to say. You’re going to build your confidence, and when you get into the body of your presentation, you’re going to be fine. And also your audience people. You’re talking to two people, 200 or 2000 they’re not always sure quite what to expect. So my A, B, C, D, and a good introduction, whether it’s 30 seconds, a minute and a half doesn’t need to be more than that, the A stands for get their attention. I tend not to suggest too much humor unless you are very good at it, because it can backfire. But attention could be a statistic. It could be a rhetorical question. It could simply be something a little bit outrageous. The purpose of it is to get people tuned in and listening. If you’re at a conference or something, they may be still chatting to the person next to them, or they’ve come back in from the coffee break, or they’re reading their emails, or whatever it is, the B in my introduction is, what’s the benefit to these people? What are they going to gain by listening to me? So today, I’m going to share with you some techniques that will help you speak in public with confidence. The C is credibility and credentials. So rather than starting out by saying, Hello, good morning. My name is about Wimmer, and you do the attention the benefits first, then you say who you are and why you are qualified to talk on this today, because now they’re listening, and you’ve talked about what’s in it for them, and then the D, I’ve got my A, B, C, the D is direction I’m going to go. I might be saying that like the next 10 minutes, I’m going to talk about three aspects that will help you have more confidence when you speak in public at the end of that, then share with you my notes and look forward to chatting with you over coffee in the foyer, so you kind of lay out what’s going to happen with your direction so the audience knows what to expect. So. Then I link that to the outcome. I use a joining phrase like so that I’m going to talk about a, b and c, so that by the end of this session, you can speak confidently, know how to do it and do it all without notes. Oh, great. And then what you say now, relax and enjoy the show. And in that D, I can say I’m going to be asking for questions from you, or we’re going to be sharing materials, or we’re going to break out into groups. People know what to expect, because very often they don’t, and that’s when they the audience, gets a bit worried, because they think I’m going with this. What’s happening? Do I take notes? Do I not take notes? I ask questions? Do I not ask questions? So that puts them in a position of comfort, if you like. So you’ve got a B, C, D in your introduction, you practice it. You know exactly how you’re going to do

45:46 Jim Beach : it, and you’ll find them. Don’t need any notes. No notes. Most people can’t go with no notes.

45:56 Isobel Rimmer : Well, you can if you’ve got a structure.

45:59 Jim Beach : How much do you look at the slides to help you remember your order?

46:04 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, I worry when people do, but I understand why they do. But actually it’s a bit like having your notes in your hand. You probably, if you’ve rehearsed and you’ve planned and prepared and you know where you’re going, you probably won’t need those notes. They are just there as a comfort blanket. They’re just there to make you feel more confident, and actually even people who’ve got notes on their slides. Now if you’re doing a webinar, it might be that you’ve got your slide deck in presentation mode, you’ve got your notes there to

46:37 Jim Beach : hand, and that’s fine, but if you’ve rehearsed you probably don’t need them. Probably be fine without them. What is the five framework?

46:47 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, that’s how I tell a story. 5d framework. It’s a way of structuring stories or case studies or citations when you’re presenting, and it follows about natural sequence, if you think about it, if we’re brought up as children to listen to stories, you know, once upon a time in a far off world, and it’s usually a beautiful princess, and good overcomes the evil, and they all live happen ever after. And that, of course, is the natural sequence of a story. So the 5d framework follows that the first D is the description or context once upon a time. The second D is the dilemma, the problem that we were facing. The third D is the desire, what it is we want to be able to do. The fourth D is what we actually did. So if you’re doing a business presentation, you might talk about what you delivered, and then the fifth D is the differentiator. So it’s much more than we all live happily ever after. It’s the value that you delivered as a result. Or if you do client story to business presentation, you might be saying, as a result, they made money, save money, improved on productivity, increase the asset value of x, improve revenue by y, and then people’s got a natural story. And the lovely thing about the five DS is, once you’ve got your story structured, you can headline off any one of those DS. You can use one story in lots of different situations.

48:25 Jim Beach : Love by five teams. All right. I love those are great. I was tail in my head the entire time too. And I was like, they have to give the princess an apple. Hey, there you are. You see, she will wake up after the apple. And they gave her the apple, she woke up and married the prince,

48:48 Isobel Rimmer : killed the Wicked Witch, married the prince, and they all lived happily ever after in the beautiful castle. I don’t know. How do we finish?

49:01 Jim Beach : Oh, you have a chapter in your book about it, the finishing touches,

49:06 Isobel Rimmer : finishing touches. Oh, just all the little things. That’s all the little things making sure that you’re kind of ready, and you thought about what you’re aware and how you’re gonna come across, and how you’re gonna warm up, and all those little things. But again, it’s all part of the preparation and planning. And one of the things that I do say, Jim, when I’m working with people, is, if you go, for example, and watch a comedian or stand up comedian do something, and they make it look so natural. And people say, Oh, how are they so quick? How do they think up those things on, you know, in seconds. How do they do those put down? Because they’ve practiced them. They’ve got loads of them in their back pocket. Then just stood up on the stage for the first time that day. It feels like it to you, because it’s so fresh. But they prepared, they plan, they’re structured, they rehearse, they’ve recorded it, they’ve done it again. They’ve got feedback. So again, that’s what makes them really good. A lot of it comes down to the structure and the preparation.

50:09 Jim Beach : Yes, what about in the toward the end of your book, you talk about going old school with a whiteboard or a flip chart. You think that would stand out in today’s world,

50:20 Isobel Rimmer : bad or good? Well, anything that’s a bit different, if you think about, I mean, I don’t know, how about you Jim, but I mean, I have sat through a lot of PowerPoint slides in my in my life, and occasionally they’re fun and engaging, and very often they’re not, but it becomes kind of what people expect. So if you start doing things that people don’t always expect, like using a whiteboard or using a flip chart, or one of the best presentations I ever saw was when a guy used two hand puppets, and it was fantastic, and everybody loved it, and everyone remembered to talk to that. So I think sometimes push the boundaries. You know, be a bit braver. Do something a little bit different, and you’ll be memorable for the right reasons. I like my people to take a few take a few risks if you want to really stand up. But obviously, if it’s a critical thing, or, you know, you’re going for an interview, you’ve got to be careful. I remember a friend of mine went to an interview once a very well known University, and he was asked this question. Basically, the interviewer, who’s a professor, said, Okay, shock me. Now, what do you do in that situation? Shock Me. I think he’s expecting my friend to say something rude, but actually what he did was he got out his lighter smoker and he started setting fire to the papers on his desk. So he certainly shocked him, and he got a place at that university.

51:57 Jim Beach : Ah, yeah, I gave presentation one time where I took a chainsaw and cut a chair in half. Good idea, bad idea. Did it get the result that you wanted? It got in the paper and I got a McGraw Hill book deal out of it.

52:18 Isobel Rimmer : Then Jim, it worked.

52:21 Jim Beach : We’re still talking about it.

52:24 Isobel Rimmer : There you go. I rest my case. There you go. You wouldn’t do that if you were going for a job interview, but when you want to make it, you know, do something different. People remember it. They remember it.

52:39 Jim Beach : Very true. Hire. You get a copy of the book.

52:43 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, right. So the book is available on Amazon, present with presence by Isabel Rimmer, and you should find it there. It’s available in the US. It’s available in Europe as well. The company, my company, is masterclass training, which is masterclass.co.uk, and if you want to link in with me, just look for Isabel Rimmer. I spell it, i s, O, D, E, L, the Scottish public. And Rimmer is R, I double M, E, R, and there isn’t anyone else called that on LinkedIn, as far as I know. So you should be able to find me.

53:21 Jim Beach : Yeah, thank you so much for being great information. And we’d love to have you back. Feels well for you.

53:27 Isobel Rimmer : Oh, doing well so far. I’d love to come back, Jim, and maybe I could come and see you. Saw another chest in half.

53:36 Jim Beach : I don’t plan on doing that again. That’s a one and done. I’m so glad you did it. I’m so glad you did it. Isabel, thank you so much for being with us, and we would love to have you back.

53:47 Isobel Rimmer : Take care, my pleasure. Thank you so much, Jim, thank you.

53:52 Jim Beach : We are out of time for today, but you know what we do. We come back. Be safe, take care. Bye. Now you.