February 3, 2026 – Lazy Investor Method Melissa Nash and Future Begins with Z Tim Elmore

0:04 Intro 1 : Broadcasting from am and FM stations around the country. Welcome to the Small Business Administration award winning school for startups radio where we talk all things small business and entrepreneurship. Now here is your host, the guy that believes anyone can be a successful entrepreneur, because entrepreneurship is not about creativity, risk or passion. Jim Beach,

0:26 Jim Beach : Hello, everyone, welcome to another exciting edition of School for startups radio. We got a fantastic show for you today, and I greatly appreciate you being with us. First up, we have the lazy investor, Melissa Nash, and she is anything but lazy, but has a method for real estate investing, unique twist, a little bit different from everyone else, but very impressed, very impressed. And so I’m excited for you to believe, to meet Melissa and learn her system. After that, we’re going to talk about Generation Z with Tim Elmore has just written a new book called The Future begins with z we will argue about those worthless kids. I mean, those great kids. I have some of my own in that age, so I can’t say anything, but we talk about all of the things, how to treat them, how to hire them, how to fire them, how to get them promotions every six months, like that. Anyway, great show. We’re gonna get started. Very excited to introduce my first guest. Please welcome Melissa Nash, wow. Wait to hear this story. I love it. She built a multi million dollar children’s clothing line, and during 2009 it fell and scraped its knee and knocked the tooth out and had to start over, and she decided she wanted something a little safer than children’s kids, something more recession proof. So she went into real estate, and now she has, though, built a real estate empire. She has many millions of dollars in her own rental portfolio, and she has developed a signature method called the lazy investor method. I think she sold that for me, that sounds a lot like something I would have said. She’s taken 2000 students plus through her system, and they have purchased over $500 million in real estate, many generating multi 1000s of dollars in passive income in their first year. Plus, she has flipped and renovated 50 properties out of state. I don’t know how you do that. They have Melissa, welcome. How you doing?

2:28 Melissa Nash : I you know what? Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m doing great. I It’s funny, because when I hear somebody read that bio out loud, you know, it actually makes me feel good. And I’m like, Yeah, Damn, I’ve done a lot, you know, let’s, let’s use that is my mantra. When I’m feeling down

2:43 Jim Beach : exactly, I actually offer a service where every time you walk into a new room, I will introduce you that way. And for men, I offer to throw in world renowned lover also. But for women, I throw in something else, like and all of that before 23 welcome Melissa Nash. 23 year old.

3:06 Melissa Nash : I love that. That would be a pretty awesome way to walk into a room. Thank you so much for having me.

3:12 Jim Beach : I’ll do it. You know, if that’s service we offer, I’ll give you the plan after the show. All right, please do. Please do tell us your version of the story. Melissa, it’s so fascinating. Tell us what you comes to your mind, and I’ll follow up with about 400 questions at one time. Just dive in and what when I say tell you, you know, tell your story. Where do you start when you meet someone on the street or at the poker club, what do you tell about yourself? Melissa, who are you?

2:03 Charles Steel: Jim, I’m doing great. I’m calling in from London, and it’s great to be with you.

3:41 Melissa Nash : Well, you know, first and foremost, I am a mom of four kids, and I’m married of 27 years. And thank you. Thank you. And you know, I’m a entrepreneur, ADHD mind. And I think that a lot of entrepreneurs actually do have ADHD because, you know, we’re our brains are kind of split into 1000 different areas. And for me, my it’s not ideas that come out, it’s focusing on those ideas. And so I hyper focus. And so I think because of that ADHD brain, I come up with ideas. I hyper focus on it. I want to know every single thing about it, like I can’t leave one stone unturned. Then once I get it, I’m like, Okay, I’m done. I got the knowledge. Now I have to make it really, really simple, or else I’m going to go on to the next idea. So then I kind of come up with, how do I break this down as simply as possible. And because of that, that is how I’ve been able to help so many people get into real estate investing. Is breaking it down into simple, basic steps, and then at the end of the day, you have to take action. You can’t just take that knowledge and just sit there and not do anything with it. You have to actually do it and. So that’s really what I’m so proud of myself for investing in that first little property 2000 miles away from where I live. That was, you know, nothing exciting, but it gave me the confidence to continue this real estate. So anyway, so that’s kind of my brain in a nutshell. So where do you want to go from here?

5:18 Jim Beach : Well, you have shiny ball syndrome, so I love it, but tell us about the property 2000 miles away. How do you flip a house that you don’t go see every day and inspect the work and everything that’s yeah? So, so there, yeah.

5:33 Melissa Nash : Sorry, yeah. So I didn’t flip this house. That is the secret. That is the lazy strategy.

5:39 Jim Beach : Oh, tell us strategy. Then give us the methodology. Yeah, definitely.

5:43 Melissa Nash : So there are teams out there across the US, and they are the flipper, and there’s this model called turnkey real estate investing. Now, turnkey usually means, you know, if you’re talking to a realtor, you put the key in, you turn it open the door, and the house has been, you know, it’s, it’s ready for you to move in. Everything has been done. Yep, exactly. So there are teams out there that do this for investors, so you can actually buy a property that they already renovated. So they’re the flipper, so now they are flipping it, but it’s not just the house. Like the house is great. We want to find that inventory. We wanted to be able to get access to that property that’s been renovated, but there’s so much more. Like you said, like, how do you do that alone, 2000 miles away? Well, you need a team, and you need a process. So you’ve got to have a local property manager in place. You have to have, you know, the title, the escrow, the inspector, all the things that are going to be your eyes and ears and trustworthy on the ground, so that you have confidence you know living 2000 miles away, to make this happen. And so that is literally what I have put into place. After I first figured out that property, I was introduced to a team out in Alabama. I bought the property. I bedded out my own property manager. I kind of created the system so that I could make it repeatable, and then I did. That’s how I’ve made the system repeatable. And now I help others do that from 2000 miles away on their own.

7:15 Jim Beach : So you buy from a flipper, which indicates to me it’s going to be at retail price, and then do what with it? Rent. It is this a rent and hold Exactly.

7:26 Melissa Nash : This is a buy and hold strategy, okay? And the reason why I came to this type of strategy is because I live in California and

7:35 Jim Beach : that massive that’s really bad for you.

7:38 Melissa Nash : Yeah, I’m sitting here in 70 degree weather right now, while the East Coast is freezing. But, yeah, you know, the math doesn’t make sense here. It’s not landlord friendly. You can’t buy an $800,000 property and charge $2,000 a month in rent and make anything you know, I’m not a wealthy person, and so I’m like, How can I buy properties in affordable areas like that. First property in Alabama was $50,000 renovated. So when I can buy a property for $50,000 it was already renovated, and I can put a tenant in there paying $600 a month rent, boom. That’s positive cash flow.

8:16 Jim Beach : All right, so how do you find the deals?

8:21 Melissa Nash : That is the great question. So the last so that very first deal will separate that one that was given to me through somebody that I know, through a network. So, so now all of the properties that I get access to are actually off market. These are not on the MLS. So these flippers, essentially, since they work for investors only. They don’t want to put them on the MLS and sell them to owner occupied because it’s just owner occupied. People just are. They take a little bit longer. The process is little bit more detailed. They want to move in and out of these properties as quickly as possible. Now, investors, if you know what you doing, and you have a little bit of education, you can look at a deal and go, yes, I want it or No, I don’t move on. You don’t care how big the closet is. So these types of people absolutely love investors, so they’ve created a business around it. So now that comes down to, how do you find these people? Well, you find them through me. I have vetted out teams the last 10 years in markets like Memphis, Tennessee and Alabama and Missouri and Ohio, and so I’ve got really, really amazing people that will actually give me their properties when they’re flipped after they’re done, and they don’t even go on the MLS. So it’s kind of a little secret pathway to finding these is through

9:34 Jim Beach : me, okay? And then I want one then. So what is that, obviously, there’s a commission. Do you just take a flat fee, a commission on the deal something? What is, how’s it look? Yeah, definitely.

9:49 Melissa Nash : So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So first of all, I want to make sure that you’re not going into anything blindly. I want to make sure you understand the due diligence, because even though it’s far. Away from me you don’t see it

10:01 Jim Beach : against the blind Melissa,

10:05 Melissa Nash : well, yeah, we I want to really make sure that you’re not just buying a property setting you up to fail. I want you to understand why that deal is a good deal and and I want you to understand what makes this market a good market. I mean, I’m giving you all the information so some people can just take it and run with it, but I really want people to just learn it for themselves, so that you can grow and scale and kind of do what I did and not hit a lot of mistakes and so so I do offer a program that you can work with me directly if you want the education piece, and it’s actually very, very affordable, I walk you through exactly how to find the market, how to analyze the properties, you know, and then within that system, I’m like, great. Now here, here’s the lenders, here’s the questions ask lenders, property managers. But this education is great, but I want you to do it. So then, by the way, here’s all these properties, and now you can buy these properties as well, and then you feel a little bit comfortable, confident, having that knowledge. So that is the way that I prefer to work with people, rather than just, you know, give them the properties and just kind of leave them on their own. I just don’t necessarily feel good about that unless you’re already very experienced and you kind of already know what you’re doing. Okay, you want

11:18 Jim Beach : to tell us what that costs, or is that for a private discussion.

11:22 Melissa Nash : Nope, it’s $197 a month to monthly membership. You can join and cancel anytime that you want. When you feel like you’re you’re building up that education. You want to learn it. You want to take action. It’s a great place to be inside there. You get access to me. Get access to all the tools, my spreadsheets, you know, literally every single thing that you need to be successful in doing this out of state, because it’s really scary. And to be honest with you, I think part of it is too, is just a little bit of hand holding, just knowing. Like, I remember when I bought that first property, I was like, I just want to, like, confirm with somebody, like, is this the right thing, or am I thinking about this weird? Or what do you think about this? And so that’s really what this is. It’s kind of what I wish that I had. So there’s some hand holding, there’s some education, and then the deals. And I call the deals the deal bank, because these are off market. And essentially what I do is I pre analyze them for you, so there’s not going to be something in there that I wouldn’t buy myself, and if properties don’t hit a certain percentage of a return, I’m not even going to put them in there. And I’m literally going to go back to that team and go, hey guys, why are the numbers so bad on this? What can we do? You’re gonna have to lower your sales price or something. So I do fight for my investors to get the best deals possible. And so you get access to those properties when you’re

12:41 Jim Beach : inside that program. Wow. You know, I’ve done a lot of real estate interviews, Melissa, and I’m pretty sure that your price point is illegal, and I’ve interviewed all of the gurus. Melissa, the price point is 30,000 so I think you misspoke. I wouldn’t give you this opportunity to correct yourself, because right now, you’re on the record for a cheaper price. So I just, I want to make sure you don’t feel bad about this later when you know I’m sure you misspoke. That happens. It happens. Mother of four, you probably haven’t slept in 10 years, 1227, years have been married. Haven’t been you know? I mean, he snores, you know, he rolls over and hits you in the head, and you wake up for hours. So I’m sure that price is not correct.

13:34 Melissa Nash : You want to I am. I’m sticking with it. I’m sticking with the price. You know, it’s the goal for me is that when I’m working with a client, they’re not just buying one property. I really, really want them to build a portfolio. So my students who are in these programs are going to stay in these programs for years and years and years. So that’s a monthly price. You know? It’s a monthly membership, again. Like I said, you can cancel anytime you want, but they’re the strategies are in there. It’s like, you okay, let’s say you bought your first property and you saved up and you put 20% down. Well, what’s what’s next? Well, where are we going to get the next money for the next deal, and how are we going to save on taxes? And there’s a lot of amazing, amazing strategies. And so, you know, this is kind of a really cool system, to do it the lazy way, and to stay and get a lot of help to build that portfolio. But you’re right. There’s so many coaches and gurus out there that you can buy these. I’ve talked to so many people that are like, Melissa. I bought this program for $30,000 and they didn’t even help me buy a property. I have to, like, do everything alone, and it just literally makes me sick to my stomach. I’m like the whole point of it is, you know that $30,000 should be your down payment for your property, you know. So I am very much about sharing the knowledge and sharing the wealth. And obviously it’s a business, so I do make money doing it, and then I put money right back into real estate and buy my own

14:58 Jim Beach : and you said. Melissa in that that you, you’re sort of quoting someone else and say they just did a deal, and then you help them find them next money, or something like that. That’s sort of what you said, is part of the the training how to find the money.

15:15 Melissa Nash : Um, no, not necessarily, not at all. In fact, the people that are perfect for my program is somebody who’s, you know, might live in an expensive area, West Coast, East Coast. They’re a full time busy working professional, and they’re like, hey, you know, I’ve got 30, $40,000 sitting in a bank account, not doing anything. I’d like to get into real estate. But I don’t know how that’s generally the if that’s you, you are the right person, because I’m going to teach you how to do it and go and by the way, here’s this $150,000 property in St Louis. Your 30, $40,000 is going to be the down payment and the closing costs. So now they own that property. And you know, kind of what I was saying is, is that was their savings. They don’t have any more savings. So now we’re going to talk about strategies, how to continue to grow your portfolio where you’re going to get money, whether it’s, you know, partner partnering, or, you know, rinse and repeating equity, or, you know, there’s different things like that. Maybe you want to go flip on your own or, you know, renovate your own properties. You know, there’s different strategies in there. So the program is really set for the person to take that first step and gain that confidence to do it, and then they’re going to stick with with me inside this program, because we’re going to talk about how to grow and scale it.

16:29 Jim Beach : All right, tell us the children’s clothing story. It seems like in every city and every every decade, there’s one woman that makes an amazing business out of really cute, handmade stuff, and then she starts to sell it at school. And then, yeah, you know the story? Was it one of those, I hate to put them in a bucket like that, but I’ve interviewed two or three, four or five people like that. Tell us your story. Yeah, that was, that was me, yeah,

17:04 Melissa Nash : that was me. So, you know, like I said the beginning, I’ve always been an entrepreneur, you know, and so this, this, this, this business kind of started by accident because I found out that I was pregnant with my first son, and I was, you know, the story is kind of typical, where I was, like, looking for cute clothing for him, and everything was just super silly with ducks on it, and there was nothing really cool and edgy. And so I made him a pair. I do so and, you know, I didn’t have to. I could have had somebody else sew it for me, but I sewed my first piece. And you know, I’m not the best seemed stress, but it was really cute as a little pair of little coveralls that, like you would wear in a shop or a garage. Because I would put him in these coveralls and send him out to, like, play and get greasy and dirty and gross, and you just strip those coveralls off. And, you know, of course, family, friends and everybody’s like, Oh my gosh. Those are so cute. Those are amazing. I would buy those, or you should sell those. And so it’s funny, because I took the first pair of those that I made and I replicated a second pair. I even put a little patch on it, and the patch said knuckleheads on it, and that was apparently I just branded the company. And so I there was a little children’s store in town, and so I did not know what I was doing at all. And this was in 2025 and this was kind of pre, you know, social media. And I didn’t know where all the children’s stores were, but there was one in my town. And so I took this down to the store, and I said, Hey, you know, would your customers be interested in something like this? And they said, Oh my gosh, these are so great. Yes, we’ll take an order of like, 30 of them. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, okay, I just acted like and they’re like, What season is this and and, you know, they started asking me all these crazy questions, and when is delivery dates? And I had no idea, but I just acted like I did. And I was like, oh yeah, this is my spring delivery, you know. And I was like, I’ll come back to you. And I just, I mean, I went on Craigslist, and I was looking for local pattern makers and seamstresses and where I could get wholesale fabric. And I just kind of it. Was doing as many searches that I could to figure out, how do I price these and and that, that was the start of it. And then from there, I started selling to other children’s boutiques wholesale. And I figured it out. I added more pieces to the line. And by the time we before, we had to shut down because of the economic crash in 2007 and 2008 2009 where all the children’s stores were going out of business. Um, up until that point, we had distribution in about five different countries, and we were selling to over 500 children’s stores.

19:54 Jim Beach : I don’t I didn’t hear the part of the story that made you crash though you’re out your distributor. Distributors, distribution network died, or did you overextend and have debt?

20:07 Melissa Nash : Well, I’ll tell you right now, and it’s going to be a trigger word. It’s called tariffs. Tariffs was one of the things that absolutely killed us back then. There was also a law that went into effect, because this was children’s clothing we were importing overseas. At that time, we’d gotten to the point where importing from India and China, we even tried Madagascar, and we’re always looking for really good manufacturers overseas to import the goods in. And they passed a law that all children’s clothing had to pass a lead test coming into the country, even though my clothing did not have zippers or buttons or any metal on it. So if it was, like, a t shirt that was 100% cotton, I still had to put it through the lead testing. And my first lead testing Bill was like $30,000 yeah, yeah. And so there’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that not everybody realizes, and just getting stuff into the country. And, yeah, so, so that was going on, but, but then right after that, children’s stores were just going out of business. They were just dying and closing and and they had, you know, you order these clothes, these, you know, lines of clothing six months prior, and then I put them into production, and then they’re overseas, and they’re coming in on, you know, boats, and then these children stores are going under, and so I’m stuck with all of this inventory. And I was just like, there is no way we can get rid of this and recoup. So I was actually able to sell the company, you know, really, just pennies, not, not really, like this big profit, but at least I was able to, you know, have value in the trademark and the name, and so I was able to

21:50 Jim Beach : sell it. Well, at least it didn’t go to nothing. But it’s a really important lesson, I think. Tell me what your thoughts are on this. Melissa, I’m not a huge fan of creativity, risk or passion for entrepreneurs. I just don’t think they need risk. They can do it without it or reduced risk and Bootstrap. We can do a lot of things to make it so it’s not really that risky. And I’m a huge fan of copying. Like you did. You weren’t the first person to make children’s clothing. You had your niche, your style. That’s great. That’s the way it should be. And then passion, you know, maybe your passion comes in your second, third, fourth, business. You know you have to walk down that pathway before you get to your second. You know you have to do something first. Did you have a passion for that business? Do you have more passion today for real estate? Would you be here today if you hadn’t failed there go.

22:43 Melissa Nash : Great, wait, great question. So, I am a creative person, and so the clothing company was a creative outlet until it didn’t. It didn’t serve that purpose anymore, because it was so stressful, just that importing and all of that just became like not, as fun anymore. And so, you know, it was a good time. I would say that the company that that happened at the time, because I was burned out, completely burned out. And I was like, I will never have inventory ever again. I’m not dealing with carrying inventory on my shelf. I will never do a retail business or something like that again. And then that’s where I was like, you know, I want something that is assets that I don’t have to have and store in a warehouse, you know? And that’s where I kind of fell into real estate, because my husband’s grandma, when I met her, they called her rich grandma, and I came to found out later she was rich because she had bought single family houses in Los Angeles in the 70s, and she held them. And by the time I met her and knew her, they had been, you know, mostly paid off, and she was living on the cash flow, and it was this amazing wealth piece for her. She died shortly after. I never really got to talk to her about, you know, why she built it, or how she built it, or all these things. So I knew real estate made people rich, and it was recession proof, because people need a place to live. So that being said, I hope you hear the enthusiasm in my voice. I love real estate. I have so much passion for it, and it’s not the creative part, it’s the challenge part. I’m constantly challenged, whether it’s a new deal I’m analyzing or a new market or a client that I’m helping or, you know, there’s different types of real estate, it’s just new challenges for me, but I get excited because I see what it’s done for myself and my family, and I can finally sleep through the night, because I know that I’m not relying on anybody else I my properties are are doing their thing. They’re creating cash flow. The tenants are paying off the mortgages. They’re going up in appreciation, and my financial security is secure. So I actually finally feel like, really. Settled not relying on anybody else.

25:03 Jim Beach : Damn Melissa, that was a close right there. You just put the bow on it. How do we find out more? Follow you online, all that stuff, please.

25:10 Melissa Nash : Yeah, I want you guys to go to passively rich with rentals.com. And on there. You don’t even have to sign up. You don’t even have to put your email. You’re going to me analyze $135,000 property in Ohio. You can watch it live. You can see how I break it down. And then, if you’re interested, and you’re like, Hey, that’s pretty cool. I want to get a copy of that spreadsheet that I’m using. Then you can enter in your information, and you will get a copy of that spreadsheet. And then you’re going to be in my ecosphere. You’re going to be in my world. I like to, you know, give a lot of people a lot of education and ways that you can work with me,

25:46 Jim Beach : passively, rich with rentals.com.

25:51 Unknown Speaker : That’s it. Great. Melissa,

25:53 Jim Beach : thank you so much for being with us. Great, great segment, and we would love to have you back. Thanks a lot.

25:58 Unknown Speaker : I’m in thanks for having me, and we will be right back. That’s

26:15 Jim Beach : a wonderful question, actually,

26:18 Intro 2 : oh my gosh, I love the opportunity to do this. Thank you, Jim, wow, that’s, that’s, that’s a great one. You know, that is a phenomenal question.

26:26 Tim Elmore : That’s a great question. And, and I don’t have a great answer.

26:29 Intro 2 : That’s a great question. Oh, that is such a loaded question. And that’s actually a really good question. School for startups radio,

26:40 Jim Beach : we are back and again. Thank you so very much for being with us. Very excited to introduce another great guest from Atlanta. Please welcome Tim Elmore to the show. He is a leadership expert. He is the founder of growing leaders. It’s an Atlanta based nonprofit developing leaders. He has worked for some 20 years along John Maxwell, Dr Maxwell, and developed his skills there. He’s appeared in The Wall Street Journal Washington Post, USA Today, been on CNN fox, a bunch of other places. Has written 40 books, unbelievably, including habitudes, which is one of his best sellers. He has a new one out right now called the future begins with z9 strategies to Lead Generation Z as they disrupt the workplace. Tim, welcome to the show. How you

27:33 Tim Elmore : doing? I’m doing well, it’s great to be with you.

27:36 Jim Beach : Have you recovered from our Blizzard yet,

27:42 Tim Elmore : I think so we I’ve still walked our dog, but the walks were just a little shorter outside when the weather was

27:48 Jim Beach : below freezing. We’ve had two weekends in a row now where they guaranteed us Armageddon and the apocalypse. Yeah, yeah. And this weekend, I think we got nine flakes,

28:01 Tim Elmore : yeah, total, yeah.

28:04 Jim Beach : But school was closed in advance. You know? It was unbelievable.

28:08 Tim Elmore : Yeah, yeah, yeah. We shut down. We shut down at Atlanta, if we even think of snowflakes coming.

28:14 Jim Beach : Yes. All right, let’s talk about the new book. Future begins with Z. Let’s make sure we all understand what Z is. They are what 20 now? 20 to 35

28:28 Tim Elmore : Yeah, they’re they’re young professionals. I often talk to employers and say, This is your youngest team member. You know, the new batch of employees coming in, and they’re just, I did the book Jim, because they’re just coming in different, even different than the millennials who were coming in 20 years ago. So I really am attempting to convince a leader that even though they might be the most challenging generation to manage, which is what resume builder.com found out, they may be the greatest solution to future challenges, because they see the future.

29:02 Jim Beach : All right. Interesting conundrum there. First, are you hearing and seeing? Do you agree with the stereotypes? How true are some of the stereotypes about Z they want after a month? Yeah, gonna work 30 hours a week. We have to respect all of their concerns. Yes, yes, yeah.

29:26 Tim Elmore : Well, obviously, with most stereotypes and any generation, some of them are true. You know, they usually are birthed out of an observation, but I tell you what, as I did qualitative research, 21 focus groups across the country, and then quantitative research. I I surveyed over 2000 of them. I discovered a lot of times they’re the stereotypes aren’t true. So here’s a good here’s a good one. Managers would say to me, oh my gosh, they don’t really want to work. You know? They leave right at five o’clock as soon as that class. Clock strike five. They’re out of there. When I brought this up to some of the Gen Zers, they politely said to me, Dr Tim, do you know why I leave right at five? I said, No, tell me. They said, because I have to rush over to another job. I don’t make enough income at this first job to pay my bills. And then one gal said, After that second job, I rush over to take care of my mom, who has stage four cancer. Suddenly, I realized she may have a really good work ethic, but the perception on the outside, on my part, was was not the whole story. So part of the reason I think they demand this work life balance, and I want to only work 30 hours, or whatever is, they’ve seen older generations unhealthy, like my gen, I’m a boomer, so, you know, we were just living to work. It was, it was everything to us. And they saw how it damaged Christmas, you know, the holiday dad was working. Dad was married to his work, maybe. So I think all behavior has a reason, and I began to discover and grow in my empathy, that maybe they’re wiser than we thought. And maybe the answer is in the middle, somewhere in the middle, you know?

31:11 Jim Beach : Well, it usually is. The answer usually is in the middle. I don’t think we’re there yet. Z I have four kids, 2z and two A’s, okay, yep, yep. The Z’s are doing very well, very well in terms of work and things like, yeah, yeah. I’m concerned him that they don’t have very good morals. And I’ll say that about my own. Yeah, yeah. They’re not good at, thank you. They’re not good at I’m sorry, yes, yes, yes, sir, they’re not good at honestly, saying you’re right. I made a mistake. I don’t think the Z has ever said those words, you know, Tim just I’m not concerned about the qualifications as much because we can retrain and adapt and Sure, sure. I’m concerned about their inherent moral quality. Yeah.

32:14 Tim Elmore : Well, my data shows that they’re neither moral or immoral. They’re very much all moral, which means I’ll do whatever works for me, which isn’t good, that’s not a good that’s the end of society. That’s right. It’s not a good path forward. So I think we need to do a better job teaching them those ethics. And you even mentioned manners, you know, where you look somebody in the eye and you say, I’m so sorry. I got that wrong. That was my bad. My gosh, bosses and dads will lean in if we hear our children saying that. So what I found again, this will not be a shocker, but there is a general cynicism about authority today, about the federal government, about the health care system, about even religious institutions, which is sad so that Cynicism doesn’t excuse their behavior toward authority, but it may explain it. And I think in our homes, you just mentioned being a dad, we’re going to have to teach them. Hey, you’re going to go a lot further with showing some respect and some you know, I don’t know manners and courtesy, even if you don’t like everything about that other person, you and I both know there’s a social contract in place. You know, we drive on the right.

33:27 Jim Beach : I don’t think they have that social contract. Yeah, no, you’re right there. They’re not going to apologize to me when they run me over.

33:35 Tim Elmore : Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. And I had a lot of conversations about this social contract, and of course, they’d never heard of such a thing, but it’s something down through the millenniums that we’ve had to understand. But here’s what I found, Jim inside of every Gen Z or and probably every young adult in any generation, there is two tugs at their heart. On the one side, I want to be me. On the other side, I want to be long and isn’t it true life, healthy, living, good work, is a balance between I want to be who I am as an individual. You know, I may have a nose ring and orange hair and so forth, but I might have to sacrifice some of those. I want to be knees in order to really collaborate with a team and make a sale or whatever it is we’re trying to do. So I think as they go through adolescence, they’re going to have to find that balance between I want to be me and I want to belong. I had to as well, and I think we haven’t done a good job with you. Got to belong to a community, and part of that’s your work and part of that’s your family. We got to be more intentional teaching it because social media Good God is not teaching that to the next generation. Yeah.

34:47 Jim Beach : All right, nine strategies. Let’s get some of them, see if we can be a little more positive here. Give me a strategy.

34:54 Tim Elmore : Okay, all right, so one of the tough spots for managers and leaders is giving harsh feedback. And, you know, every young employee, and for that matter, every employee needs to get some feedback that’s not very fun to get. Well, what bosses have found today, by and large, this is not a judgment, it’s data. Is they’re often fragile, you know, and they get their feelings heard, and maybe moms never told them they weren’t awesome. So I give a strategy, and I call it a leg, a, l, e, g, you know how for years, we’ve said this is the leg you got to stand on. So I follow this little acronym. Whenever I’ve got to correct them, the letter A reminds me I need to start with asking, not telling. I need to ask. Can you help me understand why you.dot.or I, you know, tell me what your thought process was when we asked someone about what they’ve done, they can feel valued. We’re asking, not telling. The letter L is, listen. Well, I think it does little good to ask any questions of them if we’re not willing to actually listen for a moment or two and hear them out. When we listen, they feel heard. And by the way, that’s the number one request I found they want in their jobs, is I want to have a voice. I want to be heard so we listen. The letter E is empathize. This was difficult for me to learn. When I empathize, I find natural ways to say, oh my gosh, I had no idea that happened to you, or I bet that made you feel horrible when that happened, but when we empathize, they feel understood. So think with me, as they feel valued, listen, they feel heard, empathize, they feel understood. Now I can practice the letter G, which is what I wanted to do from the beginning, which is to guide them, but I’ve won them through a bridge I built, not a badge I wear. And I just feel like with Gen Z, relationships are so key. Even though we do have a badge on, if we can build it through a connection, we go so much further.

36:50 Jim Beach : Well, you know, Tim, that was all good advice for any person, you know? Yeah, that’s really true. Good advice for any person. There’s nothing specific to Gen Z in there, yes, after the G, where’s the R, the return of respect? You see, that’s where? Yeah, you know, I feel like we can give them all of that, give, give, give, then they take, take, take it. They don’t give anything in return. Yeah, they don’t say I’m appreciative in the return. They don’t go, Gosh, I’m sorry, good, yeah, yeah. Well, and that they go through the other side of the contract, yeah.

37:27 Tim Elmore : Unless, of course, if we are their supervisor, we say, This is what I need you to do. If you’re going to stay here, it’s what I need you to do. So one phrase I talk about, remember, I mentioned relationships just a minute ago. I’m not saying go soft. I think we need to build bridges of relationship that can bear the weight of honest disclosure. And that means we say, after they know we believe in them, we say, Now, Josh, buddy, I’m going to need you to respect me. And here’s exactly how this looks. And if you can’t do it, I’ll show you the door. I hope you find another job. But if you’re going to stay here, this is what you’re going to have to do. That’s a hard conversation that many bosses are afraid to have, because they’re the labor force shortage is very real right now. They’re picking Gen Z’s picky, maybe more picky than they need to be, because they know that many employers, particularly in retail and restaurants, they’re looking for workers. So we’re in a little conundrum there, and we’re just going to have to somehow find a way to build a connection.

38:28 Jim Beach : What is the Peter Pan paradox?

38:31 Tim Elmore : Oh my gosh, that was a big idea of chapter one. This is why I think we find ourselves frustrated, and don’t know why we are so deeply frustrated. So think about the world we live in today, this world of technology, AI, et cetera. First of all, let me clarify. Listeners. You know you remember Peter Pan, right, this winsome character that could fly through the air in London and sprinkle pixie dust everywhere, and magical things happen on the other side of the coin, if you remember Peter Pan didn’t want to grow up. He wanted to live in Neverland, where boys don’t have to become men and girls don’t have to become women. So Jim, I think there’s something magic and tragic happening in our culture today. The age of authority is dropping whatever they have visibility on the future. They seem to understand better than me anyway, tomorrow’s customer, because they are that at the same time, the age of maturity is going up. So think about age of authority going down. They don’t even have a position, and they seem to have some smarts in certain categories, but the social and emotional maturation isn’t there. I had an employer say something to me. I’ve never I’ll never forget he said Tim 26 is a new 18. That’s crazy. Yeah, I know that’s what we want to expect today. It is. But I think that’s going to be up to you and I, as leaders and dads. Just say, Listen, this is going to this is going to put you ahead of your peers. It takes so little to be above average, right? Just so little today. So I think this Peter Pan paradox means leaders are going to have to listen more than we ever used to listen, but Coach more than we ever used to coach.

40:13 Jim Beach : All right, then you talk about the nine principles, and you talk in the first two about welcoming them and making them want to stay and then giving them connection, right? Yeah, actually build connection with them. Let’s I’m not as excited or interested in those, because I think those are easy, you know, to do that. The next one, though, I think is damn near impossible. How do we give these x’s critical conversations, offering tough feedback chapter seven without them walking out the door.

40:45 Tim Elmore : Yeah, well, in a sense, we kind of covered that with the with the, you know, ask, listen, empathize, guide. I do believe this is one of the impasses that far too often we reach. Because I don’t know you Well, Jim, but I think people like you and I, man, you just expected your boss early on, give you some correction, and you just knew that’s just the deal today. The difference is, sometimes they haven’t had a job at all during their school years. Mom and Dad said, focus on academics. Get that scholarship, or focus on your sport. You know, that’s awesome, but I walk I worked all through high school and college, and so I was ready for that job. And just know it’s not always true, but in many cases, they’ve never had any job experience. So that’s that makes it tough. This is why I keep thinking the key is going to be building trust, that we somehow hear them out, beginning in the job interview. I talk about perks. Talk over your preferences, expectations and requirements. What are the keys to succeeding here? And then talk about the salary. But I think we need to talk about what are their preferences, expectations, requirements. Jim, sometimes Gen Z comes in, requiring a company to march on this certain day outside in protest of such and such, and that’s the time early on to say, Hey, buddy, that’s not going to happen here. I’m so sorry. You know you need to find that out now, rather than later. So I found out in my research that many, actually the majority was 57% of Gen Zers make up their mind on whether they’re going to stay on day one. Now, is that fair? No, it’s not fair, because that may not be a great day, but just know we’re, they’re, they’re making up their mind. And I believe that while there are some slackers, I found some great members of Gen Z, you mentioned your kids that are, the years are, are marvelous, you know, at work and so forth. So we’re going to have to lean in a bit more than we used to lean in, because Gen Z, whether we like it or not, represents the future.

42:51 Jim Beach : Talk to me about their mental health and how to manage that.

42:54 Tim Elmore : Yeah, yeah. This is huge. I talked to employers that go, my gosh, I feel like I’m their therapist, their cheerleader, their you know, their their executive coach, or whatever. So they’re clearly coming in with mental health issues that we have not seen before. Doctors are telling us today that the average teenager in America experiences the same level of anxiety as a person in a mental ward back in the 1950s it’s just crazy, and part of it is the overwhelming amount of information coming at them on their smartphone. A young adult today, if they’re on social media, and you combine that messaging with all the other messaging in their lives, 10,000 messages a day. I don’t think my brain was hardwired to take in 10,000 messages a day. So part of it is we need to talk about margin. Do they have margin? They probably need to stay off their phone. In fact, the hour. Yeah, I know. I know

43:52 Jim Beach : word mean, yeah. Well, that word Tim,

43:57 Tim Elmore : well, I’m using it as they need space in their day, or they’re not on their phones. Yeah, I’m sorry that I should have been clear there. So we would talk about the two hour rule. Dr Jean Twenge at San Diego State University did a meta analysis on social media and phones, and she said those of us who are on our phones two hours or less every day are far less vulnerable to anxiety and depression once you go above two hours. It’s weird, but it’s like a hockey stick, you know? It just goes up and and so I even talk to my own kids who are young adults about this, and it’s their call, but I’m saying, Man, if you want to be less vulnerable, part of it’s in your hands, or, as the case may be, nodding your head. So part of that’s that, I think, also we need to talk to them about motion and movement. The average Gen Z er has been very sedentary by and large. Maybe it’s a video game they’ve been in front of all through their teen years and young adult years. Some of it, it’s a coping mechanism to make it through the day. I. Play six hours of video games, but we need to get out and move so at our office, I notice a lot of our young professionals are taking two walks a day during a break or during lunch. They’re walking around the building four or five times just to get those endorphins flowing and happy chemicals in our bodies. It may sound cheesy, but I’m telling you, we need to be intentional about the sedentary lifestyles we we have today. So I’ll stop there.

45:26 Jim Beach : What about ambition? How do we instill ambition to not only go, you know, to go the extra yard and to do and not run out of here at five. Because, you know, yeah, finish this project today.

45:41 Tim Elmore : Yeah, great question. And I, I do give an entire chapter to that they are motivated differently than those over 40. I’ll just, I’ll just say that by and large. So when I started working for John Maxwell right out of college, can you imagine, I tell people, If I don’t do a good job right now, it’s my own fault, because I had a great mentor early on, but John motivated us through the organization’s progress. You know, our numbers are up, or we’re making progress, and we would celebrate, but it was holistic. Today, their ambition is very myopic, meaning it’s their achievement or their benefit, and that sounds selfish, and it is. It is kind of selfish, for sure, but I have found, if I can show how getting this job done actually helps them, not just the organization, I do a lot better. Also, I noticed that their motivation increases when it goes back to connection again, I can show them they’re going to be way more fulfilled and satisfied. Gen Z wants a purpose driven job. They want to feel like they’re making a difference, not just $1 so I want to show how our organization really makes the world better. Again, I know that sounds kind of cliche, but they want to feel like we’re changing the world. We’re making the world better. So the more I can connect the dots between that task I’ve given them and the big picture of what we’re trying to do at our organization, the better off we’re going to be. So down our tappers. Well, I talked about tappers and listeners. That’s based off of an experiment that’s on communication, by the way. Jim, this is such a hilarious experiment. Stanford University, 1990 so 36 years ago, did an experiment with their students. On the one side was people they called tappers. On the other side listeners. The tappers were supposed to sit at this table with a listener on the other side and tap out a song, a very familiar song that everybody would know, the Star Spangled Banner, whatever, but they tap it out with their finger. No tune was being played, just the taps and then the listener, of course, their job was to try to guess what the song was. The fun part of the experiment was the tappers were asked, How often do you think those listeners are going to guess your song? The tapper said probably 50% of the time, it was only 2% that the listeners actually gets the song. And the reason, of course, is when we’re tapping out the song, as a tapper, I could hear that dude in my head. We think it’s getting through, but it’s not. This happens every day at work. We think we’re communicating clearly, and they’re going, la, la, la. I don’t understand. So I have found we need to be more epic in our communication, E, p, i, c, the more we can create an experience, not just a talking head, the better off we’re going to be. I think they’re not looking for a talking head, but they’re looking for a guide on the side with with an experience the letter P is participatory. The more my communication can allow them to participate in the outcomes of where this is going. So for instance, if I have to communicate in my onboarding process nine big ideas, I’ll put it up on the screen like a bingo card, you know, nine boxes, and I’ll say which one you want to talk about, first? How about first, how about now? How about now? But they feel like a little bit like they’ve got to, they get to participate. I believe people support what they help create. The letter I is image rich. I feel like we just need to be more. We need to use more imagery and visuals. These are screen agers today that are growing up in our world. They have Tiktok, they have Instagram, and it’s mostly image rich. So the more we can use an image to anchor the big idea. That’s what habitudes is. You mentioned that in the introduction, habitudes are images that form leadership habits and attitudes. It’s a way of teaching a timeless principle through a picture. And pictures are worth 1000 words. So I have engagement now from the employee. It’s it’s sold 3 million copies, and I think it’s because it’s an image based conversation, and then the letter C and epic, so experiential, participatory, image rich. The letter C is connected, if we can allow them to connect with each other as they. Hear this information and maybe process it or apply it to their lives. Now, let me say the obvious. This takes a little bit more time. It’s not just a lecture, pictures beat lectures every time, but it’s more than a lecture, and I think we’re going to have to learn to communicate a little bit better with the attention spans that we see today in people.

50:23 Jim Beach : Yes, the question is, how much do I have to give versus how much are they going? Yes, yeah, yeah. Again, you’re right. That’s that balance. We only have a question, I mean, a second or so left, how do we deal with making them into new leaders so that they can actually get promoted and stuff? Yeah?

50:41 Tim Elmore : Well, I think the key here is not going to be a shocker, it’s ownership. I feel like, as they’ve grown up, prior to their career, they’ve been led in a very prescriptive sort of way. Moms have prescribed, don’t forget your backpack, don’t forget the quiz on Friday, right? Teachers have been prescriptive. Here’s how to study for the SAT. Here’s how to do this. Here’s how to do this. Coaches, sports coach, we’re prescriptive on the sidelines of the football game. So because we know best, we’ve told them exactly what steps to take, when and where and how. This has not given them much ownership. They’re renting their education, not owning their education. So leaders build leaders at work when we give them a little bit of ownership. So I feel like I moved forward as I gave employees a sense. I managed my objectives, rather than here’s the seven steps I want you to take. Here’s the objective you get to get to it however you want. But listen, on Friday, this is what needs to happen. So they wrap up with a quick story. My favorite story that I added in the book was the moon landing in 1969 NASA space program, right July, 69 Neil Armstrong walks out on the moon. That actually started way back in 1961 and 62 when John F Kennedy cast vision that we were could have put a man on the moon. Well, when JFK made that prediction, NASA did not even have the technology to do such a thing. So they’re scrambling to get new tech into Houston, you know, into the headquarters and the people that were 4550 55 years old working at NASA, those operators didn’t understand that new technology. Do you know who did understand it? The interns, those MIT and Purdue students who just graduated and we’re now working there. So slowly but surely, ownership of that moon landing, believe it or not, was handed over to 20 somethings, the average age of the control operator at NASA when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, 27 years old. And the operator, who said, Go, not know in the end, to finally pull the trigger and do it. Jack Garmin, 23 years old. I would have sworn it was 48 year olds that were running the show. Now the people that were older were sim soups, simulator supervisors. They were mentors and coaches, but they gave ownership to those young, sharp operators who got the job done. I’m wondering if today we could somehow meet in the middle, like you said, we need, we need to meet in the middle. But I’m wondering if we gave ownership, if they might surprise us with what they’ve what they got in them.

53:24 Jim Beach : Tim, how do we find out more? Follow you online, get a copy of the book.

53:27 Tim Elmore : Yeah, well, my website’s probably easiest thing to place to find everything. Tim elmore.com, Tim olis.com, books on Amazon. The future begins with z but what a joy to be with you. Thanks for the questions, and it’s been a great conversation.

53:40 Jim Beach : Thank you for being with us. We are out of time for today, but you know what we do? That’s right? We come back tomorrow, be safe, take care and go make a million dollars. Bye. Now you.