January 22, 2026 – Emmy Winner Tamara Laine and Multiculturalism Joycelyn David

0:04 Intro 1: Broadcasting from AM and FM stations around the country. Welcome to the Small Business Administration award-winning School for Startups Radio, where we talk all things small business and entrepreneurship. Now, here is your host, the guy that believes anyone can be a successful entrepreneur, because entrepreneurship is not about creativity, risk, or passion: Jim Beach.

0:26 Jim Beach: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another exciting edition of School for Startups Radio. I hope you’re having a great day out there, riding the roller coaster life of being an entrepreneur. We are here to give you a little bit of motivation to get off the sofa, to get out there and start a business, grow a business, take control of your destiny, and we are trying to give you the tips, the tricks, and the techniques to be successful. We’re trying to give you great guests that will give you advice on any of the topics that we talk about. That’s why our show is, I don’t honestly believe you’re going to listen to every single show. You listen to the ones that are interesting. We have an incredible index. We have good search. Of course, find the topics that appeal to you. If you’re only interested in AI, we have only done like 55 AI shows, right? Great show today. First up, we have Peter Economy. He is a Wall Street Journal best-selling author, has written over 135 books. That’s right, 135. That’s right, 135. He has a new one out about time management. We will talk about that. He is an amazing resource. And we have a great conversation about how to write a book, which is, of course, I think all of you need to do. If you don’t do it yourselves, you need to pay someone to do it. It is the calling card of the 21st century. After that, Joycelyn David is with us. She is so interesting. She’s Philippine, grew up in Canada, and is now in a multicultural world. She runs a multicultural awareness business, teaching multicultural awareness, and also helping companies use that as part of their competitive advantage, as it should be. I have lived all over the world and done business all over the world, and I wholeheartedly think that that benefits the other businesses that I work with, right? If I do business in Spain, that helps me with my business in Brazil, and I haven’t done business in Brazil in decades. So anyway, Joycelyn David is with us as well. Oh, and here’s the cool thing: they both play the Quick 10. Our favorite game show is in there as well. So we have two Quick 10s today, two amazing guests. So we’re going to get started in about 10 seconds. Thanks for being here.

2:52 Jim Beach: We are back, and again, thank you so very much for being with us. I’m excited to welcome back to the show Peter Economy. He is Inc.’s Leadership Guy, has written 130-something books, and sold millions of copies. His most famous book is perhaps the Dummies series on management that he was asked to write. Plus, he has written a series on “Wait,” and then something bad happens. So like, “Wait, I have to work with who.” And he has a new one called “Wait, You Need It When: The Essential Guide to Time Management, Productivity, and Powerful Habits That Get Things Done,” released soon. 135 books. So that’s pretty amazing. He’s done all of the ghostwriting. He is also part of all of the leadership groups and the national associations and all of that. Graduate of someplace out west called Leland University. I’ve never heard of that. Maybe it’s a good place. I don’t know. Worked with all of the big names out there, the Jim Collins and people like that. Peter, welcome back to the show. How you doing?

4:05 Peter Economy: I’m doing great, Jim. Thanks for having me back. It’s really nice being here again.

4:09 Jim Beach: I not, I personally, but the people, the kids that I was responsible for, earned a building at Stanford. Pretty good. Wow. Okay, yeah, that’s something, yeah, that’s—

4:24 Peter Economy: For sure. I’m not in that group, but maybe now I know someone who knows somebody, huh? Yes.

4:31 Jim Beach: And on the other coast, I flooded a computer room with a melting ice rink. Wow.

4:39 Peter Economy: Now that is, that’s even, that it was not cool enough, I guess.

4:46 Jim Beach: I used to run the world’s largest summer camp company. When you have camp kids, those are the sort of things that happen.

4:53 Peter Economy: Wow, I can imagine. Well, that’s quite a feat.

4:58 Jim Beach: Do you like having an unusual last name that’s also sort of in your space? You know, my last name is Beach. I don’t have anything to do with that. You know, I should be like an oceanographic engineer or something. I did get a minor in oceanography. That’s about as close as I can get. Do you enjoy having a unique last name, Peter?

5:20 Peter Economy: Oh, I do. And yeah, I did sort of the same thing you did. I got a major in, I didn’t, it wasn’t a minor, it was a major in economics. I kind of had to do that. But the best thing about having a name like mine is people don’t forget it. I mean, they’ll, you know, years later, they’ll say, “I remember you. I remember your name. I remember Peter Economy.” And I think that’s the best part of it. Plus, it does kind of key. And people always ask me, like, “Is that really your name? Are you serious? Is that your pen name? What is that? Where’d that come from?” That’s always fun.

5:51 Jim Beach: The only thing that equals it is the mustache.

5:55 Peter Economy: Yeah, you know, I shaved that off a couple years ago, and my wife about killed me. She said, “What have you done? Who is this guy I’m living with now?” So yeah, that was— it grew back after a few weeks. So I was okay there after that.

6:12 Jim Beach: You look great with it. I mean, it’s plus, it gives you economy of face. You know, I remember when I saw that you were coming on the show today, I immediately remembered what you looked like.

6:24 Peter Economy: Wow, that’s amazing. And you know, I’ve had that mustache, except for that time I cut it off a few years ago, ever since I graduated high school. I graduated high school in Georgia, and we were not allowed to have facial hair back then, and this was back in the 70s. So I think it was one week before graduation, I started just letting my facial hair grow out, my mustache, and it’s been there ever since. We were in Georgia, Middle Georgia, Warner Robins, just south of Macon. And yeah, we were really big on our football team. Our football team was tough back then. I think they got tougher after I left. We think they won the state championship a few times.

7:04 Jim Beach: Their stadium is just off the highway. You can see it there.

7:08 Peter Economy: Yeah, it’s, they built it when I was there, and it was huge. I mean, it’s bigger than a lot of college football stadiums at the time. Yeah, we take it serious. We take our football serious. Yes, we do.

7:21 Jim Beach: UGA especially so. Oh yeah. Peter, I was opening the mail one day and got a cease and desist letter from an entrepreneur, not from a law firm, I never heard, and said, “We see that you are using the word entrepreneur in one of your new business ventures, and you must stop doing that, because the word entrepreneur is owned by EMI, which produces Entrepreneur Magazine, and we are going to sue you, the entrepreneur, in the name of Entrepreneur Magazine. Protect the word entrepreneur,” which is some 400-year-old French word. What are your thoughts on this little story?

8:09 Peter Economy: I think that, yeah, I think that’s nuts, you know. And I know that people trademark words and copyright, but that’s such a basic word, entrepreneur, entrepreneurship. I think in its use for a magazine, sure, you could trademark that for a magazine. But for any other purpose? No. How could you do that? I mean, there’s colleges that teach classes in entrepreneurship. There’s schools of entrepreneurship. And you know, Babson College is one big school of entrepreneurship. There’s, you know, I work with clients. Some of my clients, they teach workshops in entrepreneurship, and they’ve got, they use the word, they have to use the word. How could you not use the words? That just seems completely nuts to me.

8:56 Jim Beach: They spend a ton of money doing it, and they usually win. And if you’re a university or something, they’re not going to come after you. But if you do a for-profit, this was TheEntrepreneurSchool.com. And the other half of the story is, we were publishing my very first book with McGraw-Hill. And McGraw-Hill came back and said, “We don’t like The Entrepreneur School. Could you change it to School for Startups?” And that was almost the exact same day that I got the cease and desist letter. It was sort of like God of entrepreneurship saying, “Jim, you’re going to change the name of your company to what McGraw-Hill wants,” right? So then I got, from a movie producer, they made a movie called Trademark Wars, which featured this story. And the other story they featured was Cure, C-U-R-E. Susan G. Komen has trademarked the word cure and goes after other organizations trying to cure other diseases. Oh, wow. Wow.

10:02 Peter Economy: That just, you know, reminds me of just patent trolls, you know, this whole patent troll thing. It’s bad. That’s just terrible. And in your case, it worked out well. I love the School for Startups. That’s a brilliant name. That worked out really well. But generally, they just, you know, it’s predatory. They sue you. And if you don’t want to spend, you know, $100,000 and send it to your lawyer, which most entrepreneurs, that’s the last thing they want to do, is just send a bunch of money to a bunch of lawyers, you’re just going to fold. You’re going to change it to something else.

10:40 Jim Beach: 130-something books, Wall Street Journal best-selling. How do you write a book? Peter, describe the process to me, please.

10:49 Peter Economy: So the general process, when I work with a client, I do a lot of ghostwriting. You know, those 135 books, plus books, I kind of lost count. But the general process is to first work up an outline with my client. So we will figure out what the chapters are going to be. Chapter one is this. Chapter two is that. Chapter three is this other thing. And then I interview them chapter by chapter. So every week, we’ll sit down for a conversation, a one-hour conversation, usually by Zoom or something like that, telephone, and I’ll talk them through the chapter. And sometimes they give me a presentation, like they’ll give me a slide presentation, a PowerPoint presentation, or sometimes I’ll interview them to the chapter. And after about one hour, you know, I capture that conversation, I record it, and then I get that transcribed, and I draft the chapters from those conversations. And then I send those draft chapters to my clients, and they play with them a little while, a little bit, send them back to me. We just iterate it back and forth, and before you know it, you know, after usually about three to six months, we got a book.

11:56 Jim Beach: All right, I love that. That’s a great process.

11:59 Peter Economy: Works well, and it captures my clients’ voices. You know, that’s one of the big concerns for a lot of my clients, is, “Are you going to get my voice? Are you going to capture my voice?” And these are clients they have from, you know, men and women all around the world. Sometimes they’re in the United States, sometimes they’re in Switzerland, you know, Hong Kong. It could be anywhere. And their biggest concern is usually, “Are you going to capture my voice?” And through that process of interviewing them, or getting their presentations and recording them and then getting them transcribed, I definitely am able to do that.

12:32 Jim Beach: That’s a great methodology. And someone could do that with themselves. They could interview—

12:36 Peter Economy: Exactly, yeah. And that’s very true. If you’re going to write a book for yourself, you know, write your own book, it’s a great process to go through. And I’ve done that myself where, in fact, I think I did it for this book, recalling back to working on this book. I outlined the book. I created an outline. There were 15 chapters, something like that. And then I went through it, and I interviewed myself. I just said, “Okay, chapter one,” and I recorded a conversation, just talking about each chapter. I talked through each chapter, recorded it, and then got it transcribed, and then used that as a basis for each chapter that I then built out with research. You know, I went and did research and built out the book from that.

13:21 Jim Beach: I have five books published, and I’m working on both six and seven right now, and I want to get your grade on this and tell me if I’m crossing a line or something. I’ve used the exact methodology that you have, Peter. I take the transcripts and get them cleaned, you know, turned into grammar-mistake-free, and, you know, get it pretty. And I outsource that. And then I take what’s left and do whatever I want to with it, change it around until I’m happy with it. And then I put it into, and here’s where I want your input thoughts, I then put it into ChatGPT and say, “Grade,” and it gives me a grade out of 10, and it will tell you exactly why you got that grade. It will give you all of the good things. It will tell you all the bad things and tell you what to do, including catching any typos and errors and stuff like that. And then I can decide what to do. I can leave it alone. I can make their changes, something like that. Peter, it’s almost like I’m addicted to porn. I will not stop until I get to 9.9 now. Wow. And so I’m writing this book. This one’s fiction. It has 21 chapters. I’m also applying the new Amazon rule that a book should be 100 pages, because no one reads after page 99. So I write five 100-page books. Wow. Cramming each chapter through GPT until I get a 9.9. It’s now the GPT knows my books. And I already asked, “Should I have a book, volume six?” And it said no, and gave me 12 reasons why. What are your thoughts on my new porn addiction here?

15:17 Peter Economy: I think that is a really good addiction to have. And it’s, I think, you know, in some ways, it’s probably better than porn, especially if you’re creating books as a result, actually having something happen like that. But I think it’s a great use of AI, because, I mean, a lot of writers worry about, you know, AI taking over their craft. You know, AI is going to write the books for them. But I think it’s still important. I think, you know, that’s what we writers do, is write. And I know my clients, they want me, they want me, the person, to do the writing. But I think that’s a great idea, to then run the chapters through GPT and get that grade. I mean, I’m just, I think I’m going to start giving that a try myself based on what you just said. Because, I mean, I think they’re great. You know, I write something and I think they’re great. And my clients often think they’re really good too, or great. They’ll say, “Wow, I love the chapter. This isn’t the best one yet.” But I’d love to get that feedback a little bit earlier on and then, you know, get those suggestions for changes. And I like how, you know, you’re using GPT to actually get suggestions for changes and then raising your scores, you know, in a really dynamic way. That’s just, that’s fascinating to me. I think it’s a great, great use of GPT.

16:40 Jim Beach: Well, play with it, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it. You know, let’s have a week, and tell me what you’ve learned, and I’ll give you another layer of sort of my addiction there. I can’t stop. I got a 9.7 the other day, and I was almost, I got to keep going. It was like two to three in the morning. You know, same way I was with the video games, you know, when I was with HR. You know, there’s something about the dopamine rush that I still get from having the grade immediately, you know, and then changes, and I got another half point or something. Yeah. Pretty spot. Already spots.

17:24 Peter Economy: Yeah, it’s not dorky at all. It’s brilliant. I mean, I think it’s a great use of GPT, and, you know, AI in general, because, again, you know, and I’ve seen writers that use it, and I don’t think that’s working super well. I know I had a client at one time that asked me to use it to write an article, and they had given me some research that they had found on, you know, using AI. They had done some research, and they sent me some research. I think there were three different studies that they sent me they had found via AI. And so, as part of what I do when I write an article, when I write a book, I always do the research. I always double-check. When a client sends me a source, I double-check and make sure I can verify it. And every one of those three, all three of those sources they had sent me, that they had found via AI, were wrong. AI had hallucinated them. They had put together some facts in one part of the world and connected with some other facts somewhere else, and then connected it with something else, and it made up three sources of studies and research. And they looked real. They looked legit. But when I tried to track them down, they did not exist. So that’s the whole thing about AI that I’ve found, and I’ve used it for research a lot, is that you have to be really careful, because it often hallucinates studies and research, which is not good.

18:54 Jim Beach: That’s the worst thing it could do. Tell us about your new book, “Wait, You Need It When: The Essential Guide to Time Management, Productivity, and Powerful Habits That Get Things Done.” Tell us about it.

19:07 Peter Economy: So, I mean, this is a book about time management. And you’re right. What you mentioned at the top of the interview here is that I’ve been working with Career Press, I don’t know, for 567 years now. And the first book I did with them was “Wait, I’m the Boss,” and that was a book for new managers. And then the next book was “Wait, I’m Working with Who,” which was working in a toxic workplace. And this one, “Wait, You Need to Win,” is all about time management. And, you know, the simple fact is that so many of us waste time. There’s been research that shows that the average employee wastes two hours a day, and that’s mostly because of distractions that they have in the workplace and inefficient work practices. That translates to 500 hours of lost productivity over the course of a year. And if you’ve got a lot of employees, you know, 10 employees, that’s 5,000. 100 employees, that’s 50,000. You know, on and on and on. That’s just a ton of wasted time. So that’s what this book is all about, is recapturing that time that people lose, mostly in the workplace, but also in their personal lives.

20:17 Jim Beach: And my personal belief is that workers at home, at-home workers, waste four hours a day. I know I do. But I have seen, I’ve experienced, I just do not believe the studies that show that they’re more productive. They may be happier. There is no way in hell that they’re more productive, because they’re also getting their laundry done. Yeah, yeah. I’m just, I just don’t believe it. What are your thoughts?

20:51 Peter Economy: No, I agree 100 percent, Jim. I know I work at home. I’ve always worked at home. That’s, well, ever since I left the corporate world. I think it was more than 20 years ago. And it’s so hard. I mean, I look at my, every week I’m going, “Oh, my God, I’ve got to take my kid to the doctor.” I’ve got a, I’m just looking at my calendar right now. I got, yeah, like taking one of my kids to the dentist tomorrow. I’ve got a kickoff. I’m taking, I’m going skating. I’m doing, going to the post office. I got to run my wife’s cat to the cat groomer. You know, I’m doing all these things during the course of the day that just get me all off track. And so I end up having to make up time elsewhere in my schedule. I’ll end up staying up late just to do work, because then it’s quiet time. But I’m sure you’re right. I cannot believe that people are more productive at home. It just can’t be possible.

21:48 Jim Beach: No, it’s not. And all the studies prove it, though. And again, I think that a lot of the PhD studies either prove something that’s wrong or prove something that we all already know well.

21:59 Peter Economy: And the fact is, I see this all the time. You know, when they talk about, you know, this thing causes cancer, this thing doesn’t. You know, there’s studies that say that drinking coffee causes cancer, and there’s other studies that say that drinking coffee cures cancer. I mean, there’s studies that will prove anything, any which way you want. And then so many of these studies are funded by, you know, organizations where it’s in their favor if they find something good about coffee, for example. So I just, you have to be very selective in what you believe. I think so.

22:36 Jim Beach: Yes. Did I hear a rumor that you wanted to play our game, the Quick 10?

22:39 Peter Economy: I do. I’d love to. That’d be great.

22:42 Jim Beach: Fantastic. Are you currently sober?

22:45 Peter Economy: I am.

22:47 Jim Beach: Standard wager?

22:49 Peter Economy: Sure.

22:50 Jim Beach: The attitude. All right. Number one, favorite creativity hack.

23:01 Peter Economy: My favorite is a hot shower. When I’ve got a tough problem, I just jump in the shower, and that hot water on my head gets my creativity flowing every time.

23:09 Jim Beach: Number two, favorite bootstrapping trick: bartering.

23:14 Peter Economy: I think if you barter your expertise, whatever you do, if you can barter it, barter it and trade it with a lawyer, an accountant, whatever that may be, then that’s going to put you ahead.

23:25 Jim Beach: Number three, name your top passions.

23:28 Peter Economy: Ghostwriting, great books, working with my amazing clients. I play lead guitar in a rock band. I like date nights with my wife, and impromptu family day trips to the beach, desert, and mountains.

23:39 Jim Beach: Number four, the first three steps in starting a business are—

23:46 Peter Economy: Well, first, you got to identify a problem. Second, you got to validate that people actually pay to solve that problem. And then third, you got to build a minimum viable product, one that you can get out. It’s not perfect, but one that works.

23:59 Jim Beach: Number five, the best way to get your first real customer is—

24:06 Peter Economy: Solve a problem for someone you already know. That’s how I did it. I was solving problems. I was writing books for people who were in my network.

24:14 Jim Beach: Number six, the dreamiest technology—

24:19 Peter Economy: I think about brain-computer interfaces. I think some of the work that’s being done in that is amazing. And if I could imagine downloading a language, I want to learn French, and I could just download it right into my brain.

24:30 Jim Beach: Number seven, best entrepreneurial advice—

24:36 Peter Economy: Don’t fall in love with your solution. Fall in love with the problem. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they end up having a solution. They just fall in love with that, but the customers don’t love it, because it’s not solving their problem.

24:48 Jim Beach: Number eight, worst entrepreneurial mistake—

24:52 Peter Economy: For me, it’s not keeping my pipeline full. My business, my ghostwriting business, has its ups and downs, just natural. So I’ve got to be looking out six to 12 months ahead, always, to keep my pipeline full. And sometimes I’ve failed at that.

25:06 Jim Beach: Number nine, favorite entrepreneur and why?

25:10 Peter Economy: Yvon Chouinard. He’s the founder of Patagonia. I think he proved you can build a huge, profitable global brand while remaining committed to your values.

25:22 Jim Beach: And number 10, favorite superhero?

25:24 Peter Economy: Iron Man. I love Iron Man. I think it’s great because he’s not, he’s not a superpower guy. He’s not like Superman. He’s an entrepreneur. He’s an engineer who built really cool stuff and did what he needed to do to save the world.

25:41 Jim Beach: Fantastic. While we calculate your score and find out the winner of the game, Peter, how do we get in touch with you, find out more, and get a copy of the new book, “Wait, You Need It When?”

25:52 Peter Economy: My website, PeterEconomy.com, using that name to its full extent, PeterEconomy.com.

26:01 Jim Beach: Fantastic. Did you have to buy that off of a vendor, or did you get it straight out of GoDaddy at $14?

26:09 Peter Economy: I got it cheap. Yeah, I got it on the cheap. Because, you know, if I’d been smart, you know, years ago, I would have picked up Economy.com. But I didn’t think that was, I know, I just saw PeterEconomy.com, which was available, and I probably could have gotten Economy.com years ago and gotten it for really cheap.

26:24 Jim Beach: Oh, Peter, I just got your score. Oh, I am so sorry. This is devastating. You got a 94, which is an excellent score, but you have to have a 95 to win. Unbelievable. We had a judge today from Entrepreneur Magazine, and he dinged you. I guess, I guess that’s my fault. I led you astray there. I’m so sorry, Peter. We always play for a Tesla.

26:44 Peter Economy: Okay, you got it. Please, I’ll send it. It’ll be in your mailbox before you know it.

26:50 Jim Beach: Peter Economy, thank you so much for being with us. Great guest, and we’d—

26:53 Peter Economy: Love to have you back. Thank you, Jim. I’m looking forward to it anytime.

26:57 Jim Beach: We’ll be right back in just a second to talk about multiculturalism. We will be right back.

27:15 Intro 2: Well, that’s a wonderful question, actually. Oh my gosh, I love the opportunity to do this. Thank you, Jim. Wow, that’s a great one. You know, that is a phenomenal question. That’s a great question. And I don’t have a great answer. That’s a great question. Oh, that is such a loaded question. And that’s actually a really good question.

27:35 Jim Beach: School for Startups Radio, we are back. And again, thank you so very much for being with us. Very excited to introduce another great guest. Please welcome Joycelyn David to the show. She is author of a new book called Multicultural Mindset: Driving Business Growth in a Borderless Era. She is the owner and CEO of AV Communications. It’s a multicultural marketing agency. She is also the founder of TooLonga, a B2B solution for marketing and media startups. And she acts, in addition to all that, she’s giving back to the world and to her industry, she is very active in the People of Color in Advertising and Marketing, POCAM, an organization that I did not know exists. She operates out of Canada. Joycelyn, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

28:30 Joycelyn David: I’m doing great, Jim. Thank you for having me on. It is—

28:33 Jim Beach: My pleasure. Is the world getting flatter and smaller? Seems to me like we’re almost going in the other direction right now with some of the political stuff going on. What do you think? How are we doing, multicultural-wise?

28:50 Joycelyn David: Yeah, you know, the word multicultural in my book, Jim, I did a lot of research around the word. And, you know, multiculturalism began as soon as people in the world started moving across borders. So if you think back to the Silk Road, when spices traveled from one end of Asia to the other and eventually ended up in Europe, as people moved, culture moved. And as culture moved, ideas moved. And the idea of multiculturalism is not new in the world, but as policy, it’s a pretty recent thing. Jim, I’m proud to be based in Canada, where multicultural policy was first formed at a federal level in 1971. So when you fast-forward to today, in 2026, and think about the world stage, most recently, world leaders taking the stage at Davos, you know, yeah, the world is very multicultural. And leaders who want to navigate a borderless world, where culture, spices, and other things move across borders at the speed of clicks, leaders need to work on developing that cross-border cultural fluency. And as an entrepreneur running two companies, it’s actually been the reason for my growth as well. Jim, I run two companies. One of them is one of the fastest-growing companies in Canada, as ranked by The Globe and Mail. For the last three years, we’ve been on that list. And people will ask me, “How did you grow your company, Joycelyn?” I said, “Well, I adopted this mindset of looking across cultures and looking across borders, from my customers to my employees.” And that is my mantra in a nutshell.

30:38 Jim Beach: What does that mean, looking across cultures and borders? What does that actually mean in your life?

30:48 Joycelyn David: Yeah, so multiculturalism is a policy, at least in countries that have adopted it. It kind of really reflects the fact that people from different cultures can work side by side, live harmoniously, and be accepted in their society. That’s what it means on the kind of socioeconomic side. When you translate that to business sense, it means that you’ve got multicultural teams and multicultural teammates who may have different contexts and cultural dimensions, and ways that they evaluate, make decisions, communicate. And this is not new in the field of cultural psychology. But when you have the world literally falling into one workplace, one retail storefront, or one restaurant frontline, you know, the world at your place of employment often means that that can be a challenge for people who have different cultural contexts. And one of the things that I like to explore in the book, Jim, is that what it practically means is that, for people every day, it means that you need to understand your own cultural context, what informs where you are in a multicultural multiverse that we’re living in today, and take active steps to actually look outside of that world and reach out across the aisle, so to speak, to understand cultures that you might not understand, that you might not identify with, might not have the same values as, but you do need to be able to work with them side by side if you’re working frontline at a store or at a restaurant. And what I do, Jim, is I consult and I advise brands and companies of all sizes on how to make a multicultural mindset really practical for all levels of an organization, whether you’re a C-level or whether you’re a frontline associate. It applies to all of us as humans, but more importantly, it is a skill that is not necessarily taught in schools today, and something that I’m proud to say, with the book, has been a new mission for me.

33:04 Jim Beach: What is taught? Japanese business practices or the social systems in Spain? When you say that you can teach multiculturalism, what are you actually going to teach?

33:22 Joycelyn David: So I’ll tell you what I do for my clients, Jim. It starts with first understanding your own cultural background and context. And culture really does, and I need to say this, Jim, today, in 2026, culture goes beyond skin color. It goes beyond language. Culture, there’s a wonderful image I have in my book of the culture wheel, and the culture wheel consists of everything from your traditions to your rituals to religion. And the one thing that’s not on there is skin color, as an example. So culture is a lot more nuanced and layered than maybe the way the world will check a box off, you know, when they think about culture or initiatives around diversity or DEI, which, you know, increasingly are under attack in the US and also in Canada. We’re not immune to that up here in Canada. But it starts with understanding your own context and understanding that culture is multilayered and multifaceted. We are not one thing. Like, I’m a Filipina, Jim, born in Canada, but have lived in multiple countries and can speak multiple languages. So I’m not just one or the other. And actually, the multitude of all those things, and that’s what actually makes what I do, navigating a multicultural multiverse, really interesting, is because no one is the same. And when you put all of this uniqueness into a workplace, it can really cause interesting dynamics when it comes to communication. And that’s why a big part of the training that I do, once we get past the understanding where you are in the multicultural multiverse, we start dissecting levels of knowledge, your levels of interaction and immersion. And those are some of the major indicators on how you can actually expand that mindset and worldview. And so one of the things we do is a series of workshops where there’s a quiz that actually people can take online. It’s in the book, where you can get a read on your multicultural mindset today. But for organizations that want to do more deep dive, almost like a Myers-Briggs-like really detailed analysis of your workforce, those are some of the things that we do today as part of the book, as part of the work that I do. But it really is not one and done, is what I would say. Jim, the training is not one and done. This is a lifelong journey. It’s not something you can ChatGPT or Google. Part of building cultural fluency is experiential, right? So if I go down to, I don’t know, Mexico, and I stay in a beautiful resort and enjoy the amenities, and I come back to Canada, can I really say that I experienced Mexican culture if I stayed on resort Carlton culture?

36:25 Jim Beach: Yeah, exactly. And so I Ritz-Carlton, and they can put it in 87 different places around the world for your ease and comfort. You got it.

36:37 Joycelyn David: You got it. So I love the message that, you know, people like Anthony Bourdain had, which was, you know, share a meal with a person and you can share their culture with them. And I really do encourage that as part of, you know, what we teach leaders is, you know, get out of your ivory tower. You know, get out of your corner office and go share a meal with your frontline staff in the cafeteria and get to know them better. And often that simple human act of getting out of your comfort zone, getting out of the Ritz-Carlton, allows you to start building that fluency, which begins with getting out of your comfort zone.

37:16 Jim Beach: Can we take your quiz? Can I take your quiz right now? Yeah, you can absolutely give me a score.

37:23 Joycelyn David: Well, I can send you the link to it. It is on my website, which is JoycelynDavid.co, David.co. And then there’s a link there that says, “What’s your MQ,” I believe is what it says. And then there’s a link in that to the quiz. It might take you longer than the time that we have, though, Jim. So what I do is save the link, take it. There’s a lot of detailed questions there. It is a light version of the full version that I normally do for brands, but it will give you an idea of some of the questions and indicators that are a lot more nuanced than, “Where you were born. What language do you speak.” It’s the combination of all those things that make us unique. So I’d love for you to take it, Jim, and it’ll probably take about, you know, definitely take more than five minutes.

38:16 Jim Beach: Okay, I’ll play with that. It looks like fun. You know, I consider myself multicultural. Tell me if this is, if this makes sense, my thinking. When I was 14, I went to Spain by myself, got on an airplane by myself, and flew to Spain and stayed there for four summers. I was there for every summer, for four summers, by myself. And then made friends and developed a family that I stayed with and lived in their house and everything. That was one of the exchange programs, just by myself. Then I did college in Vermont, and that’s certainly a different culture. But then I also lived in Hawaii and Japan, and worked in Japan for several years for the Coca-Cola Company and for the Japanese government. And when you talk about culture in Japan, this is one of the things that jumps to my mind, is I knew Japanese too well. So my bosses assumed that I would know how to say polite things like, “How are you today,” and “Good morning,” and “Good afternoon.” But I also could understand when they were talking between themselves, and they thought they weren’t going to be understood, and I laughed at something that I shouldn’t have laughed at. All of a sudden they realized, “Oh, my God, he’s listening to us. He actually understands us. We are in trouble now.” And so, oh, that’s wonderful. It was, you know, I went too far into their culture. They didn’t want me that far in. You know, they wanted me 10 percent, not 80 percent. Does that make sense?

39:49 Joycelyn David: It does. But Jim, that’s wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing. I mean, you epitomize, for me, a global citizen who embraces a multicultural mindset. You know, you got out of your comfort zone early in life. You were 14 and got out of your comfort zone, and that’s not an experience that a lot of kids will have or will pursue. So really good for you for embracing that. But more importantly, that international lens that you mentioned in Japan, like if you look at the frameworks that we use for our mindset quiz, if you look at the cultural dimensions of Japan versus the US, they couldn’t be more opposite. I’m sure you experienced that when you first went to Japan. And culture shock is the result of, you know, feeling the difference between all the different cultural dimensions. But cultural psychologists have actually studied, you know, the different dimensions of Asian cultures, which is where I come from, Filipino background, versus a Canadian background. And much like your US and Japan example, are diametrically opposite, right? So how did you navigate the difference, right? And how you had to learn those cues, and how you had to immerse. And actually, like, you couldn’t just Google that and wing it, right? Take a one-page brief and go to Japan. You actually had to live it and experience it. And that’s a big part of what I write about, and obviously a big part of what I hope to encourage more young people to follow in that example, to get out of their comfort zone, off of their screens, and experience culture in real life.

41:27 Jim Beach: Yes. So as a business leader, what do I need to do? Joycelyn, as the entrepreneur, eight employees, what do I need to do? We sell widgets. You know, it’s not an international thing. It’s, you know, everyone in the world uses the same widget. Our widgets are good. Is multiculturalism important for that little company? And what should I do as the boss?

41:51 Joycelyn David: Yeah, I like to say that, Jim, diversity is good for business. I know diversity is like, maybe a four-letter word. It’s lumped in with DEI and other programs that have turned into very politicized topics today. But as a business owner myself, I hire for diverse perspectives. I look for diverse skill sets. I look for diverse suppliers who can open doors for me that I can’t open. And so when you take the lens of diversity and seeking out the multicultural mindset in everything you do, it actually means that you are able to attract new talent, retain different talent that will bring different perspectives. And more importantly, you know, new customers, like some of the cases and case examples that I gave, are what multicultural leadership looks like for businesses. Jim, like I had a client, a larger retailer, that was just, you know, selling their widgets to who they always sold to, same old, same old, same old. The strategy playbook was the same, and there was no need to change, because it was working well. Fast-forward, or rewind, to the pandemic, and all of a sudden that model changed, and they needed to look for new customers and new audiences that they had not paid attention to in order to survive. And so for them, getting out of that playbook meant looking at new, emerging audiences. Hello, when you look at, you know, the populations in markets like the US, Canada, Australia, the UK, predominantly foreign-born, may not speak English as a first language. I mean, in the US, it’s 40 percent Spanish-speaking primarily. Ultimately, brands and companies need to pay attention to who their customers are, and it may not be who they’re talking to today. So for the case study that I referenced in the book, they piloted a new acquisition approach. They took a multicultural lens and said, “Okay, let’s go after new customers that we don’t understand and we don’t know.” And it ended up being, for them, a pivotal strategy position, to take an always-on approach to diversifying their business mindset. And for me, it was a win, but it was also a journey. Because the leader, and I’m going to share this little tidbit, which I share in the book, the only reason that pivot happened was because the leader was somebody like you, Jim. He was an international, global citizen who had worked in Europe and in Asia and found himself in Canada. And that mindset at the top of the leadership chain meant that he had the power to say, “Yeah, let’s go do this and go after, let’s change the playbook,” because I know that this market is not one that we’re currently addressing today. But what if that leader had not been there, Jim? What if that leader didn’t have that global citizen mindset like you have, who didn’t have that lived experience? It probably would have been a different story. But that’s one of the stories I like to share, that multicultural leadership actually needs to start at the top. Otherwise, it’s hard for it to trickle down, and that’s something I definitely advocate for.

45:16 Jim Beach: Okay, so if I have no multiculturalism now, what should I do? Is my first step go to the Ritz-Carlton in Mexico?

45:24 Joycelyn David: Definitely not. I love the idea that culture can be learned and experienced with the aid of technology. Today, you can learn a new language on Duolingo. You can follow influencers who are creators and voices of communities that you may not know about. I love the idea that pop culture today, you know, I can watch a K-drama, K-pop demon hunters, which my family goes nuts for, one afternoon, and then take in, you know, another Netflix foreign film all in the same day. So embracing the multicultural mindset begins actually outside of the boardroom. It begins at home, you know, with experiencing and being open to trying new things, and culture in your everyday activities. And that can go from immersing in events in your community, to trying new food that you may not have tried before, going to a networking event or a cultural event that you might not have gone to before. Those small steps can go a long way to building comfort with that community that you may not know. And often you need a friend or a buddy to help open that door for you. And I talk a lot about building cultural brand ambassadors within your network. You know, there’s that old adage, you know, birds of a feather flock together. You know, I like to say, you know, screw the birds. Go out into the kingdom and look for more than just birds. Look for friends and allies that are not like you, and then, you know, get to know their community. So I love the idea that it can start, Jim, at home, and it can start with small actions. And some of the examples I give for leaders that they can put into practice in the workplace are things like, you know, celebrate the occasions and cultural moments that are important to your staff. I’m not a practicing Muslim, Jim, as an example, but for my companies, every year, we honor Eid as one of the celebrations, in addition to, you know, the Christian holidays that are typically recognized as statutory holidays in Canada. But we add on the important ones for our team. And I participate in fasting with my team, which they do for a long time, like almost a month, and I get to do for one day as part of my cultural immersion. And that is difficult as hell, what they do, but I would not have known if I had not experienced it. So all of that to say, leaders can bring culture into the workplace in social ways without it being a big DEI thing, and keep it authentic. You know, if you are doing it with the intention of celebrating a community by involving them and seeing their traditions come alive with you, that’s true leadership. And not multicultural leadership, let alone, Jim, but real leadership, and something I hope leaders can embrace.

48:37 Jim Beach: I had an employee who was Jewish, and he would come to me, and this was all a joke, and he would say, “I need tomorrow off. It’s Bleckham.” I’d be like, “I don’t know what Bleckham is.” He’s, “Oh, it’s an important Jewish holiday.” And I’d be, “Oh, okay.” And he would take the day off, and he’d come in a week later and go, “You know, another important Jewish holiday at Schmeckle next week.” There’s no Schmeckle. That’s not a holiday. And so it was just a fun game to play with the multiculturalism in the office, and it made it fun. I mean, we were silly, teasing each other about our cultures. Joycelyn, I heard you wanted to play our game, the Quick 10?

49:16 Joycelyn David: Yes, yes.

49:18 Joycelyn David: Oh, what is the wager? I didn’t know there was a wager.

49:23 Jim Beach: Sure, there you go, peer pressure. Number one, your favorite creativity hack.

49:30 Joycelyn David: Favorite creativity hack is to play piano, because I find playing piano opens my brain to more things. I’ll do that for 10 minutes, and that unlocks my creativity.

49:41 Jim Beach: Number two, favorite bootstrapping trick.

49:46 Joycelyn David: Favorite bootstrapping trick, I would say, is to only bootstrap what you can afford to do. And that sounds like common sense, but it’s, yeah. That’s what I would say to that one.

50:01 Jim Beach: Number three, name your top passions.

50:05 Joycelyn David: Can I say eating is my number one? Eating, eating. But I’m going to frame it like eating multicultural, cultural food. I love experiencing culture through food. That’s the first one. The second would be traveling. The third would be playing piano or being part of any kind of musical choir or band. The fourth would be, top passions, although should be number one, my family, and spending time with family. And my last would be giving back to youth and mentoring. It’s a big thing for me, and those are my top five.

50:41 Jim Beach: Number four, the first three steps in starting a business are—

50:47 Joycelyn David: Number one, know what problem you want to solve. Number two, make sure you’re passionate about that problem. And then number three, just go and try solving it and iterating as you go. So just start. You know, don’t overthink it.

51:09 Jim Beach: The best way to get your first real customer is—

51:15 Joycelyn David: To give them something for free first.

51:20 Jim Beach: Your dreamiest technology is—

51:24 Joycelyn David: My dreamiest technology is something that is free.

51:28 Jim Beach: Best entrepreneurial advice.

51:33 Joycelyn David: Advice would be to fall in love with math and numbers.

51:41 Jim Beach: Number eight, worst entrepreneurial mistake.

51:46 Joycelyn David: Would be to go into business with friends.

51:51 Jim Beach: Number nine, favorite entrepreneur and why?

51:55 Joycelyn David: I labored on this one for a while. I had a top 10. I’m going to say my favorite entrepreneur is actually my grandparents, Jim. Their story was inspiring. They failed as entrepreneurs, but I learned a lot from their stories. I’m going to say my grandparents on that one.

52:13 Jim Beach: Number 10, favorite superhero. Okay, favorite superhero.

52:19 Joycelyn David: You’ve probably never heard of her. Her name is Darna. She’s basically Filipino Wonder Woman, and that’s who I am.

52:27 Jim Beach: Cool. I love it. While we calculate your score and find out the winner of the wager, Joycelyn, how do we get in touch with you, find out more, and get a copy of the book?

52:38 Joycelyn David: Yeah. So people can find me on LinkedIn, Joycelyn David, or JoycelynDavid.co, where all of my information on the book, the MQ quiz, which I’d love for you to take, Jim, you can find. And The Multicultural Mindset is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and everywhere fine books are sold.

52:56 Jim Beach: Yes, and I’m sort of mispronouncing her name. It’s not Jocelyn, it’s Joycelyn. J-O-Y-C-E-L-Y-N David.

53:06 Joycelyn David: No worries, no worries. I like to say I’m full of joy, Jim, and I was full of joy to be here with you today. So thank you.

53:13 Jim Beach: All right. Oh, I’m so sorry. Oh, this is devastating. I just got your score. It’s a 94. You have to have a 95 to win. One of our Indonesian judges, doo-doo, for some reason, I have no idea what that’s about. That’s some sort of weird South Asian rivalry I don’t understand, but you owe us a Tesla, Joycelyn. We always play forward to receiving that soon. Okay?

53:39 Joycelyn David: All good, all good, Jim, all good. It’s been a pleasure, and thank you for having me. I really thank—

53:45 Jim Beach: You so much for being with us today. We are out of time, but you know what we do? That’s why we come back tomorrow. Be safe, take care, and go make a million dollars. Bye. Now you.