March 27, 2026 – Medical Precedure Inventor Dr. Mark Frenkel and Career Propulsion Jeremy Gartner

0:04 Jim Beach : Broadcasting from am too busy a show to have the rest of the intro. First up today we have Dr Mark Frankel. He is a back surgeon in Florida, and he has invented a new way of doing lumbar fusion, which is much easier to recover from. It’s a real game changer. And we’re here to talk to Dr Frankel about that. And you see how stupid I am about back surgery, but you know, it’s interesting. How do you get a new approval and all that? So anyway, he is amazing. And if I ever need anything like my tail or my nails done or anything, I’m gonna go to him, my gosh. And then after that, we have Dr Jeremy Gartner, who is equally as impressive. He is a actual rocket scientist who has turned his brilliance tree toward getting a better job. And it’s amazing story. You’re going to be blown away by it. We talk about CERN and UFOs and all sorts of crazy stuff, and he is fascinating. Anyway, we’re gonna go and get started with the show right now. So I think here we go. Let’s get started. Very excited to introduce my first guest today. He is a superstar in the back surgery space has invented a new procedure that will be so much better for all of us who have to have surgery on our back. Please welcome Dr Mark Frankel to the show. He started his medical career at Case Western University, and had a very successful career there, won the honors with distinction, and also was the resident chief resident twice in a row, which is very unusual. He did his residency at Wake Forest University, where my father did his residency, interestingly, and then moved to Florida, where he began his practice. He has invented a new procedure called Chem lift. Is that right? Sir simlis, like simliff, which is a way of bonding your vertebrae together so they don’t have to cut you open as much as my understanding, he’s written quite a few peer reviewed journal articles. 14 or 15 of them, has written chapters for textbooks and is having an amazing career, sir. Welcome to the show. How are you doing?

2:19 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Oh, thanks so much for having me on I’m doing great. How about yourself?

2:23 Jim Beach : I am well. I am well. My father told me I could go to any college in the world, and if I went to Wake Forest, he would pay for it. Where’d you go? Middlebury in Vermont.

2:37 Dr. Mark Frenkel r : Ah, yeah, almost at it.

2:40 Jim Beach : What specialty was your dad? He was a pathologist, and, oh, okay, worked, went to the army next, and did some time in Panama. But I think my mother’s career was actually more interesting. She was a nurse, an ethicist, and worked for Dr Debakey in Houston for a decade

3:05 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Of fame. I mean, he’s got to be up there. You know, there’s a probably 10 or 15 folks out there who, the instruments we use, have their names, and he’s, he’s certainly one of them. So he’s a guy I’ve never met who I say his name several times a week, which makes him a little bit famous.

3:24 Jim Beach : Yes, yes. Here’s a little bit of trivia. He used to sweat so much that they would take Kotex to his forehead, and one of my mother’s job was to keep fresh Kotex for him.

3:37 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Oh, man, that’s That’s hysterical. Actually. Yeah. You know, some people are sweatier than others and a high stress environment. I get it, yes.

3:48 Jim Beach : Well, congratulations on the career. Tell us about the new procedure and why it’s so much better than the old procedure. Yeah.

3:56 Dr. Mark Frenkel : So, you know, I’m a neurosurgeon, spine surgeon in Naples, Florida, and we have two things here. We have a lot of bad backs, and we also have a lot of osteoporosis, because the average age is higher, and so if you have osteoporosis, folks get these compression fractures. And the way to treat that is with this bone cement. Bone Cement. It’s been around since the 1950s actually, and it’s very safe and well understood, and you use it all over the body. And so I was using a lot of that treating these compression fractures. And then I started using it in kind of standard ways when I was doing lumbar fusion surgeries, because I was doing those on a lot of osteoporotic folks, and I got very comfortable with the cement, and then, you know, lumbar fusion surgeries, modern ones with rods and screws. They’re great if that’s the best option you have, and that’s the best that I used to have, and it’s the best anyone out there has. But there’s a lot of downsides to them that, yeah, I didn’t really see. Till I kind of figured out this new thing. So, you know, to put in rods and screws, you’ve got to make this big, painful incision. And I would tell these folks, these patients, beforehand, you’ll hate me for five or six weeks, and you’ll say this is the worst decision you ever made, and you’ll wish you never did it. And then it’s six weeks, you’ll be neutral, and in three months you’ll be happy, and part of that’s because you’re cutting open their back and you’re ripping all this muscle off their spine. And so I really wanted to find a way to successfully do a lumbar fusion surgery and sort of minimize both that really rough post operative recovery, but also some of the downstream consequences that just come with the nature of rods and screws, and that’s the rods will break and the screws will wiggle loose, and the fusion rate is not particularly good in a lot of different pathologies. You know, if you’re talking about scoliosis in adults, the fusion or the revision surgery rate there is, it depends where you look, but roughly 50% over like five years. And so I would put these patients through this, this awful, awful experience and awful recovery, and then they’d finally turn around and be doing great for a couple weeks or a couple months, and then they’d show back up and need the whole thing redone, and so I wanted to find a way to improve on that. And that’s how I came up with sem lift, which is a minimally invasive lumbar fusion technique. And what it does is I put a spacer in the same way we would, you know, with rods and screws, and I put it in either through the front or through the side, and that spacer kind of lifts up the bones and non pinches the nerves, but it doesn’t hold anything still. And so if you stop there, it’ll just pop out. And so that’s what the rods and screws do, is they form this strut around the vertebral bodies in the spacer to hold everything still. Instead of that, and instead of making a big incision on anyone’s back, I just put a needle from one bone through the spacer into the other, and I put this column of cement there, and I basically cement the spacer in place, and so I can do this whole lumbar fusion with just like a one and a half inch incision on your side or on your belly, and the recovery is just like a night and day difference.

7:29 Jim Beach : All right, that sounds like a lot better. I certainly can relate to that. What do you have to do to get approval for a new procedure? So do you have to get new approval for a new procedure. And I mean, you did it for the first time having no idea how it would work, I guess, walk me through what you have legally. Yeah.

7:52 Dr. Mark Frenkel : So this is a phenomenal question. So procedures are not regulated in any real or meaningful way other than you know, you can’t do anything that’s insane or you could lose your medical license. What is regulated by the FDA are devices and implants and tools. And so the way that a lot of different implants or tools make it to market is is they get used off label. So a really good example of this are the first lumbar spacers, disc space spacers from like the late 90s, early 2000s to do the studies needed to get those, like as a new designation FDA approved device. It would have cost it. It would have cost 10s of millions of dollars to these companies. And so what they did is they would get these approved as a fibular cement restrictor, which is just another category of device that you put in a leg to if you’re using bone cement there, and it stops it from overflowing or going somewhere it’s not supposed to. And so they got these devices cleared through the FDA on this cheap pathway where there’s a predicate device, and, you know, then it’s a couple $100,000 to get it through on that pathway. But then surgeons are using it off label. You know, you can’t market it or anything, but surgeons were finding out about it, and they were using it off label as an as an inner body spacer. Eventually, you know, there’s enough of these out in the wild that the FDA comes back and looks at it and says, we’ll create a new category of device, and then maybe one or two big companies, like the initial study costs there. And now there’s a very standard category of device that’s an inner body spacer. And people use the existing inner body spacers as predicates. And so what I’m doing with semlif is I’m using the existing off the shelf devices and implants, and I’m using them in an off label technique, which is exceptionally common the majority of spine surgeries and probably most surgeries use different things in off label. I. Um or use different devices and implants off label, and as long as the patient understands the risks and benefits of that through a very thorough, informed consent that’s completely appropriate, as long as you’re not doing anything that’s, you know, insane or

10:16 Jim Beach : Malicious, yes, so when you have the idea, then you talk to your fellow surgeons about it and say, Hey, I’ve got this new idea for a slightly different procedure. Do you do that step? Or is that a normal part?

10:33 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Yeah, the also very interesting. So, you know, there’s this thing everywhere, but in medicine, we stand on the shoulders of giants, right? Everything is incremental improvement. So prior to the way I’m doing sem lift, there were several people throughout the country and a few publications on it, and most notably one of my partners, he would put the spacer in. And there’s folks who will put the spacer in with no hardware at all. It just has a pretty high failure rate. So that part is, you know, sort of acceptable. Putting in the spacer with no no backup, no screws or rods. One of my partners would put it in, and he would to prevent the spacer from collapsing into the bone. He would put some cement in the bone, above and below. And so what I’m doing is a very minor deviation from that. It’s just, instead of putting the cement just above and below, I’m also putting it through the spacer. And so without kind of these small incremental steps in this direction, like if I, if I just started doing this completely out of nowhere, it would have been lunacy and totally inappropriate, and you know, I wouldn’t have ever done it, but all that I really kind of did there was, was figure out that if you put the cement through the spacer, you can use it to get some of the structural stability that the rods and screws will usually give you.

11:57 Jim Beach : Okay, that makes a lot of sense, and then you find it to be successful. How does it permutate into, you know, all of the doctors in the rest of the world? Do you write a paper about it in sort of like an instruction manual? Yeah.

12:13 Dr. Mark Frenkel : So that’s another very good question. So yeah, there’s, there’s a few ways that happened. The first is, is exactly that it start publishing, which I’m working on, publishing in peer reviewed journals. And, you know, you got to have a program long enough follow up. And now, now I’ve got that. So it’s just a matter of writing up the manuscript and submitting it, which is a work in progress. But then this is where this becomes a great topic for your podcast is to the way I’m doing this now. It’s very technically challenging, and I’m using devices that aren’t designed for it. And so I started a company, medical device company, and hired a team of engineers, and we’re working on making an inner body spacer that basically makes it easier to go down this road and to get the column of cement the way we need it. And so right now, like the current technique, there’s a big learning curve, and you know, it’s hard for any other surgeon to pick up. And so the goal is to make it effectively foolproof by developing this device and technology to make it easier to do.

13:22 Jim Beach : I have had a father in law who was an orthopedic surgeon. And there’s a famous family story that one day he was extra quiet at breakfast and was sitting there reading, and he was going to go do a surgery that morning that he had never done before and never seen done, but it was reading the manual, the whatever, the peer reviewed article, and then he went off and did it that afternoon for the first time. And so I don’t know if that’s a good story or a bad story about him.

13:56 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Yeah, right, you know. And most it brings up some interesting points. I mean, most sort of evolution and innovation, and someone’s always, everyone always is doing something for the first time. And you know, if your father in law was a carpenter instead of a surgeon, probably the analogy there isn’t, you know, it’s not that he was building like an engine from scratch. It’s probably that he was used to making cabinets with three drawers, and instead, today he was going to make one with four so something that used the skills that he’s he’s phenomenal at and very comfortable with, but just modifying how he’s doing things in a slightly different way.

14:36 Jim Beach : All right, is this something that you can patent? Can you patent a procedure and then make money from it. Or do you obviously, you make money if you come up with some new tools and sell those. What about protecting this and protecting the intellectual property?

14:53 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Yeah, so also a great question, yeah, there, you know, there’s two different kinds of of claims here, and I’m. Not a patent attorney, but I have at least a pretty rough understanding of how this goes. So there’s there’s utility patents and there’s method patents. And so the utility patents in this situation would be things like the device design and characteristics of the device, whereas the the method patents would be more like the actual surgery. And so the US is unique in that you can patent surgical procedures, like in Europe, you can’t patent those. They’re sort of just out there for the good of humanity, which is which is good. But in the US you, you can do that. And so we patented, or we filed patents for multiple kind of method and utility path patterns, and we’re working on kind of getting this to where it needs

15:51 Jim Beach : To be. Then how do you get compensated once the patent is in place? Do you charge $2,000 to use your method prompt?

16:02 Dr. Mark Frenkel : So probably not. You know, the the goal, in the end here, is helping people and in the healthcare system. You know, the patients really shouldn’t be the folks necessarily paying for this if they, you know, if they have health insurance, the goal is to get payers to pay for this. You know your aetnas and your blue crosses and your Medicare, and the way to do that is to demonstrate superiority compared to other techniques and data. So if my technique has a lower revision rate and a shorter hospital stay, and patients are using less opiates postoperatively, and all of this is true, by the way, then there’s a big incentive for payers to want surgeons to go with this technique instead of other techniques that are going to cost them more money. The demand here actually comes from this is a little unique in the world of spine, because there’s not a lot of things that are marketable directly to patients. I really don’t have any good examples of, you know, maybe artificial discs or disc replacements a little bit, but the majority of techniques have always been marketed to surgeons. But there’s something alluring to patients about a rodless and screwless lumbar fusion. Nobody wants rods and screws in their back. And so that’s a little bit of a unique a unique place for to find myself in.

17:24 Jim Beach : Yes, so now you’ll go on the road and go to conventions and do a presentation for 1000 other surgeons

17:34 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Eventually, yeah, long term, I think that’s that’s not too far down the road right now. It’s kind of just about, you know, the thing I’m really focusing on is just taking care of patients in the best way that I can. I’m actually in clinic today, and I just came out of a patient room a few minutes ago, and it’s a guy who had a conventional lumbar fusion, I think, from like l4 to s1 and he had rods and screws, and those ones are, and then he had a sem lift at the level above. And those guys, when they’re in the pre op area before surgery, they’re always very on edge, because they’ve been through a regular lumbar fusion surgery before, and they’re kind of terrified because they remember the recovery. And usually, you know, they’ll, they’ll always say something like, Oh, your nurse said that I’m going to go home tomorrow, but there’s, there’s no way. I’m going to need four or five days. And then these guys, they have their STEM lift instead of the old technique, and they the next day, we see them, and they want to go home. And then they are the, you know, of all the patients who’ve had this, the ones who have something to compare these folks who had prior rods and screws from old surgeries, they are by far the happiest because they know the alternative.

18:49 Jim Beach : I’ve had several surgeries and been in the hospital a long time. I had one surgery. I was in the hospital for three months. I had a bowel resection and I had sacrile osteomyelitis. Is that right? Does that sound right?

19:04 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Oh, yeah. Oh, man, that was horrible.

19:08 Jim Beach : I was in the hospital for three months, and I used to joke around with the doctors and nurses that they shouldn’t be allowed to do a procedure that they have not had done to them.

19:22 Dr. Mark Frenkel : That that’s fair. You know, funny you say that, because what you know, I’m always thinking ahead and, like, kind of talking to other surgeons about this, like, I know the answer for myself. Like, would I want rods and screws in my back? And like, I would not, but I sort of wonder what the when I really start getting this out there, I wonder what the response is going to be from other spine surgeons, because, you know, the ones who say they would, I think once they have some more experience, or have some experience with like sem lift or other techniques where you don’t have to do that, they can’t imagine that, they’ll feel that way for very. On

20:03 Jim Beach : The surgeon that I was telling you about a minute ago, my father in law, he broke his leg Christmas afternoon and taking chairs back down to the basement, and he knew he broke his leg, you know, diagnosed himself, and he sat there for four days until his preferred surgeon came home. And Joe to do it. He wanted to sit down and wait until my guy, the guy I, you know, trust the most, and so,

20:36 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Oh yeah, that’s, that’s, you know, the quality of surgeon varies wildly. There’s not a giant, I guess, association between your ability to take tests in medical school and like surgery, and your quality as a, you know, technically, as a surgeon. And so there’s some great folks who are very accomplished, you know, and have 1000s of research papers published who are not very good surgeons, and some guys out there who you know, you wouldn’t know it just looking at them or talking to them, but there’s some absolutely incredible ones, and it’s hard to hard to know that, other than from directly seeing people operate, right?

21:19 Jim Beach : Wasn’t that? What you’re supposed to do during the residency is get graded on your actions, you know, so

21:28 Dr. Mark Frenkel : To some extent. I mean, yeah, the folks training you, they know, you know if you’re any good, definitely by the time you’re done with your residency, but well before then. But there’s a big difference between being like phenomenal and passable, you know. And sometimes folks aren’t passable and they don’t make it through their training, or, you know, they they’re so stressed about how they’re not doing a good job that they end up dropping out or switching specialties. But, you know, there’s,

22:02 Unknown Speaker : There you go. You know, the technical skills are less there, but still, still plenty,

22:12 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Yeah, and so it kind of varies wildly. There’s there’s folks who are good enough to graduate, and there’s folks who are the absolute world class surgeons. And hey, just it’s really hard to know.

22:24 Jim Beach : What would you get interviewed for a position you, I think you had to move to Florida. Do they ask you, you know, how good are your surgery skills? Do they watch you do a procedure before they invite you into the team and into their business, their practice.

22:45 Dr. Mark Frenkel : No, you know, they, they kind of will talk to the folks who trained you and get an idea that way, you know. But no one wants to train somebody and have them like, not be able to find a job, you know, to spend seven years working for you and then be like unemployable is, is not a positive experience. And so if anyone’s graduating, they’re passable, at the very least, and capable as a surgeon. They just, you know, some of them aren’t the by definition. There’s some surgeon out there who’s the worst surgeon, you know, but there’s no one who’s going to graduate from a good surgical training program who’s dangerous or reckless or butcher or anything like that. There’s just varying degrees of guilt. Quality of surgeons, kind of within the spectrum of capable surgeons.

23:38 Jim Beach : Another one of our famous family stories is I had a cyst on the side of my head, right by my eye, and they had, they popped it out and put one stitch in, and we went on vacation, and somehow I tore that stitch out. No, no, that’s not right. I was supposed to have the stitch taken out. My dad said he could do it. He did it so poorly that I had to have five stitches to replace him.

24:08 Jim Beach : So, oh no, oh my gosh, the hotel right there on the bed in the hotel.

24:14 Dr. Mark Frenkel : So, oh gosh, yeah, they don’t, they don’t have to put a lot of sutures in, which is, you know, in some cases, for the better. Okay.

24:27 Jim Beach : And most important question, do you watch TV medical shows like The Pit now and, er, and those sort of things, or do you just absolutely hate those shows? My father could not stand Quincy. And I love TV show. Can you stand medical TV? Do you do that?

24:48 Dr. Mark Frenkel : So prior to the pit, everything was absolutely unwatchable. I mean, couldn’t tolerate a few seconds of it. And the pit, I think, is a phenomenal show. You know, it’s. Some, some exaggerations in that they have emergency medicine folks doing stuff that other specialties would be doing, and, you know, where they probably be out of their league, or just, you know, it wouldn’t be appropriate for them to do. But I mean, everything else in there is, is phenomenal. I’ve learned, I’ve learned things watching that show. You know, some stuff that’s changed outside of my specialty since I graduated med school. And yeah, I mean, I my wife and I both loved that

25:26 Jim Beach : Show, yes. Well, one suggestion, sir, on your website, Franklin d.com It has a picture of you when you were like, 18 or 19. You’d update your picture.

25:39 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Unfortunately, I don’t look like I’ve aged at all since then. That’s the most common. Yeah, I still do. I’m 40 now, but i Everyone thinks I’m my wife and I got carded like, a year or two ago to go see a movie. Yeah, it’s the hospital lights, these fluorescent tubes, they don’t age you, apparently, which is good. But also, you know, no one wants a surgeon that looks like they’re 12. So it’s a mixed bag, but I appreciate the feedback. I’ll grow a mustache or something, and then put a new picture on there.

26:15 Jim Beach : Yeah, I’m 100% heterosexual, but you seem to be a good looking man in the picture. I don’t know. I’ll have a wife. Tell me not, but you look very, very good for 40. So I’ll say that. Well, thanks, Ben. I very much appreciate that. How do we find follow online, and if we have back problems, come see you, as opposed to the butcher down the street?

26:37 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Yeah, well, I’m sure the guy down the street is a capable surgeon and not a butcher. But if you want to see me about any spine or brain issues, Frankl, md.com, F, R, E, N, K, E, L, M, D, but if you want information about sem lift, it’s SEM, lift.com SEM, like cement, C, E, M, and then L, i, s, lumbar, inner body fusion, so SEM, lift.com and there’s some additional information on there, and you can schedule a consultation, or sometimes, depending on what state you’re in and the laws surrounding it, send us your pictures for a review of films to see if you’d be a candidate. But most folks who have had a lumbar fusion surgery recommended to them by their spine surgeon tend to end up being candidates for Assembla.

27:22 Jim Beach : Fantastic Doctor. Thank you so much for being with us and making medicine better. And as I joked before, I hope I never have to hire you, but with my luck, I probably will. So thanks for being with us today. Great story.

27:37 Dr. Mark Frenkel : Oh, well, thank you. Thanks for having me on and hopefully I never have to see in clinic or the hospital, but I’m here if you need me,

27:44 Jim Beach : Well, I’ll just come and stay at your house next time I’m in Naples, the guest room is all yours, bud. All right, thanks a lot for being with us, and we will be right back You.

28:00 Jim Beach : You. We are back and again. Thank you so very much for being with us today. I am very excited to interview my next guest. It’s a true rocket scientist type situation. Please welcome Dr Jeremy Gartner to the show. He has had an amazing career working in aerospace. He has a PhD in aerospace. He has worked at CERN, you know, that really cool underground collider that’s 20 kilometers, 20 miles wide in Switzerland. He has worked there as a experimental physicist, researcher. He has also worked in industry. Has worked for five years at BD, which is one of the largest health companies, pharmaceutical sales and medical product sales companies in the world, with some 70,000 employees. And now he is switched and has created a company called Career propulsion, which teaches executives how to get that next advancement to the CEO level, CFO level, and he’s had amazing success there as well. 66% of his clients get a huge increase in salary, but he has an 88% success rate in getting people VP and C level jobs, amazingly impressive. So a true rocket scientist, please welcome Jeremy. How are you doing? Jeremy, thank you. Good. How are you I’m great. So what was wrong with working in science and doing rocket propulsion, designing aircraft, military aircraft for Northrop Grumman. Why did you know

29:53 Jeremy Gartner : I started car propulsion? I was working for Victor and Dickinson in the medical device space, and now. My history was always about getting whatever opportunity you want, even the most challenging ones on the planet. Even though I was consistently the least qualified candidate for them, I was really the worst candidate for all of those opportunities. You know, at the beginning of covid, people started losing their jobs, left and right. And I just created a post on LinkedIn, just telling people, you know, guys, whoever lost their job because of covid, I am going to help you for $5 creating a new resume. And I was saying I got a word on MBA, my PhD in aerospace, background in all of those industries, so I can help you. I understand the process. I’m also on the recruiting side for the leadership programs and Dr Nick and son. So got a lot of experience, and right away, I got seven people reaching out to me. And what I did not anticipate was the gap, the magnitude of the gap, between what those executives believed it takes to get a job to what I know it takes to get any job. They thought they come for resume, but they’re really left with a story, with the right positioning, with the strategy on how to get to the right people. And I became fascinated with solving that problem at scale, because I knew how to play the game. So that was just the beginning, and from here, just evolved into frameworks, into just a bigger team, more clients, more into just a Vincent size company,

31:32 Unknown Speaker : And you still only charge $5 No.

31:39 Jeremy Gartner : But you know, that’s interesting, because that’s also part of the journey, right? You start at $5 and then I evolved to $25 and someone told me, You know what, Jeremy, you can even charge $197 if you want. And I said, No, no way someone’s going to pay that. And you know, you have to expand your context. You have to go through that journey yourself to really understand the meaning of money in the world. That is just a value of an exchange of value. And when you got something solid that is really helping people, and you are confident that it’s going to transform people’s lives, then it’s not about price anymore, just about partnership. I am I going to be the right partner to help those people transforming their life? Or not? It really becomes about that, not about the money anymore.

32:31 Jim Beach : All right, is $197 your price point now, I hope not.

32:38 Unknown Speaker : No

32:39 Jim Beach : No, Jeremy, you’re providing so much

32:44 Jeremy Gartner : Right right now. We are not. It’s not, not to 10,000 between 10 to 20k as of now, as of today,

32:54 Jim Beach : I think you’re worth a lot more than that, if you can double someone’s.

32:59 Jeremy Gartner : I believe so. I still believe so, but I am still working my own journey. So it’s like investing in the stock when you work with us right to just get us at whatever price point we’re at right now. And yeah, no, of course, when you are increasing someone’s salary, it becomes a no brainer. It’s not about that money anymore.

33:19 Jim Beach : That’s right. What is the biggest problem people have when they come to you? What is the problem that they’re trying to solve?

33:29 Jeremy Gartner : I think it’s believed that they are not capable to get whatever opportunity they want. You know, people come to us with very successful careers. People come to us, typically at the leadership level already, meaning manager, director, VP C suite, and they got amazing careers and really high performers, and they were able to get to those jobs on their own, and they’ve done amazingly well, and they don’t understand at some point in their career why they got stuck, why all of their friends keep getting promoted, why the network is not at the right level anymore. They just don’t get it. They just don’t get it. And they get very, very frustrated and that. And they feel like they’re stuck in that loop, that there is no end to it. So they’re going to apply to apply to lots and lots and lots of jobs, or they’re going to just speak with all of the network. And if an opportunity will come their way, they’re just going to take it, because they’re going to be so they will not believe they’re going to just get something else coming the way. And really, that’s what they come for, to solve for that problem, to get systems to understand a new skill set that they never learned, and that’s what we are helping them here be how to build a new skill set, which is how to create new relationships with the right people with the right story, so that you will be invited for interviews. Or you will get jobs being created for you. That’s a skill. It has to be learned. It’s a process that has to be put in place. And that’s really why people come to us.

35:10 Jim Beach : Okay, do they have big problems with their resume as well?

35:16 Jeremy Gartner : Yes, they do have problems with their resume. However, the resume is no more than a symptom. It’s never the real issue, the why they don’t get a job. You know, when you get jobs that are worth more than $100,000 a resume is no more than a flyer to promote your services, and people don’t allow you to pay that type of money because of a flyer. What they really needs the story that is that is behind that. So, yes, they do have problems with the resume, but it’s a part of the issue that they don’t understand yet, that this is not the root cause of the problem. They have to not find a job. Okay?

35:57 Speaker 3 : Is the root cause simply that they’re not confident enough that they’re not confident enough?

36:05 Jeremy Gartner : No, the root cause is not confident. The root cause is lack of skill. You know, when you are really I want you to think about it that way. When you are having a job that is worth more than 100k you are, in other words, offering services that are worth five figures. It’s just that you have a business model that is basically to give exclusivity to one client. So in other words, it’s not about finding a job, it’s about finding a client. The problem is not about confidence. The problem is about the wrong framing. From the get go, you don’t need to find a new employer. You need to find a new client, and to find a new client to drive a sale, and to drive a sale, you are going to need to have the right positioning, meaning the right story. You are going to have to need to have the right job strategy, the right client outreach strategy, the right marketing assets to get to the right people, the right sales asset on various calls. So it’s still problem. It’s not about confidence. Yes, people do have a confidence issue that they don’t know how to get a job, but the confidence is just, again, a symptom of them not knowing what needs to be done in order to get the next opportunity.

37:26 Jim Beach : All right, can you walk me through an example? Tell me the outline of a client and then how you repositioned him. We don’t need to know the name, of course. But can you give us an example?

37:37 Jeremy Gartner : Yes, sure. Let’s take a client, for example, who was a principal at Amazon, okay, she needs a job at a senior level. Before that, he was a CFO at a private company. Now he’s a principal at Amazon, and he’s looking for his next opportunity at a C suite or VP level. Now those opportunities, they’re not advertised anywhere, and if you do see them, advertised, is going to be killed way, way, way too late in the process, meaning they already know the companies who they want for the job. So the way it starts is by rebuilding the story that he has, not from a resume standpoint, but from a storytelling standpoint, because in the end of the day, people buy good stories, so you need a compelling story that is going to move people, that is going to get people to want, to desire, to have you on the team. So it all starts with the right story. Then you need the right strategy. Meaning, okay, that guy, for example, he might want to move to another big tech company, he might want to move to a private equity firm, he might want to move to lots of different types of opportunities. And that’s going to be the strategy. Where are we going to aim for, what are going to be the companies, and so on and so on and so on. Once you get that he’s going to need to speak with people inside of those companies, meaning building the right relationships. We are using automation. We are using lots of different tools to get to them, and he’s going to speak with all of those individuals. And in the end, what ends up happening is that guy, for example, spoke with the CEO of a public company, and he ended up getting a job being created for him as an SVP for that same company, because he reached out cold to that same CEO, spoke with him, got an amazing story to share with him, and the CEO was very, very excited to be able to have someone like him on the team. And that’s how a job is being created through relationships and having the right story, the right compelling story, to show them that if they don’t get you on the team, they will not get anyone else like yourself39:52 Jim Beach : Over there. What was the story that you taught him to tell

39:58 Jeremy Gartner : So the story when you get. To those type of levels. The issue is that you’ve done so much in your career that it’s not the lack of stories that are lacking is that you got so many stories that you don’t know yet. You don’t know what to articulate anymore. What matters in that case, it’s not to show examples of outcome, of results, because all of the leaders at those levels can show, yeah, I was able to scale a company from 10 million to $100 million Great, awesome. But all of all of the other leaders interviewing for those jobs are going to come with a very similar story. What matters is to show what type of leader you are going to be if you were to get the job, meaning, what type of legacy did you leave in your past job? What impact did you have? What? Who are you as a person? That’s what. That’s the story you need to share. And all of the results, all of the outcomes, those end up being examples to show the type of person that you are, the type of leader that you are, and that’s how you kind of connect the soft skills with the hard skills. And that’s why people become very, very compelled to hire someone like you, because you got real kind of mini case studies to highlight who you are as a person and who you are as a leader.

41:24 Jim Beach : Okay, I would love to hear his story, though. Do you know what it is? Do you remember his story? Well?

41:32 Jeremy Gartner : His stories is the story of someone extremely nice, extremely kind, that loves helping people, that loves upscaling everyone around him with the right tools, so that they’re all going to know to speak finance. Meaning, yes, he was an amazing CFO before that, but what made him amazing is not that he’s great with Excel sheets, is that he’s taking the entire company, he’s teaching the entire company finance and everyone have has the same language to communicate with him around that so in the end of the day, everyone knows what is going to really move the top line and the bottom line of the company. Everyone is educated, and that’s the type of impact that he has everywhere he’s moving companies by really upscaling people and by bringing new technologies, no matter where he’s at, which is why now he’s at Amazon to kind of create those type of changes as well. And that’s why that public traded company was very excited by him, because, again, it’s not about spreadsheets. It’s about, okay, how do I change the DNA of a company by getting someone that is going to change people to get the better version of themselves? And that’s why they’re going to recreate a job for him. All right,

42:59 Jim Beach : That does sound very impressive. And then how do you do the strategy part of reaching out to CEOs who are very busy and don’t just take calls with anyone who calls them? How do I say that story in a 32nd message, so that they actually call me back or email me

43:16 Jeremy Gartner : Back when you reach out to people, to CEOs. It’s not about sharing your story with the 30 seconds message. It’s about asking to speak with them because you are curious about them, meaning that if you reach out to them telling that you want to speak about yourself, it’s not going to be interesting. What’s going to interest them, though, is that you come to them with a very precise, very tangible item that you want to discuss with them about, for example, let’s say, let’s say, for example, that I was that guy. Okay, let’s say, for the sake of the example, that this name is this guy’s name is Jim, and he wants to reach out to the CEO of a company. So the type of message is going to send him is going to be like, hey, hey, CEO. I am Jim right now, principal at Amazon. Before that, I was the CFO of such and such company, reaching out to you because right now you are the CEO of that company, and I saw that you transitioned also from a CEO type of job, also to a big tech company before becoming the CEO of that company. And I’m super curious about how you were able to make that transition happen. I know it’s out of the blue. I know that you don’t know me, but would you be willing to spend 15 to 20 minutes speaking with me about that experience? And, of course, more than happy to reciprocate in any way I can, to help you in return. And that’s about it,

44:50 Jim Beach : All, right. That was now, what if I said, that’s how you Yeah, yeah. So I go ahead. What if I said, I want to bring to your company? The skills that I learned at CERN and designing high advanced rocket ships.

45:07 Jeremy Gartner : It’s not interesting. Not interesting because, again, you make it about yourself here.

45:12 Jim Beach : No, I want to bring those skills to your business, though. I want we learned stuff at CERN that no one else I

45:20 Jeremy Gartner : Understand, but you are still pitching yourself, even though it’s going to be to help them, it still says it’s it’s still going to be about you, not about them. If you want to make it about them, it’s more about, hey, it sounds to me like you might have these type of problems. Now, this is the type of things that have been solving my entire life. Would you mind sharing with me, maybe the way that you are approaching those very curious to see your experience around those type of things from the moment that you feel the narrative that it’s not about you, it’s about them. That’s when those start to happen, and when you are curious about their specific experience, you are going to shift from having a very transactional conversation to having a meaningful relationship driven discussion that is going to end up opening doors those jobs. It just side effects.

46:18 Jim Beach : What about saying? I want to teach you what I learned about UFOs and aliens. Now you got an interview.

46:26 Jeremy Gartner : You can tell him the same thing. You can tell him the same thing. But again, the I want to teach you, it’s making it about you.

46:35 Speaker 3 : It’s about their learning. They are learning. Do you

46:39 Unknown Speaker : Know they care about that.

46:40 Jim Beach : Everyone wants to know the truth about UFOs. And I know that you know, and I know you’re not telling me,

46:47 Jeremy Gartner : Okay, in that case, again, you want to reframe it the same way that’s about them, not about you teaching them all

46:54 Jim Beach : Right, so how do I about UFOs? Give me that line,

46:58 Jeremy Gartner : Okay, seems to me like you’ve been based on those articles they found. It seems to me like, like you’ll be interested with UFOs. I’ve been exposed recently to some, some of the things that are very interesting that space is that would love to hear your insights about what it looks like and share with you as well. If I know about about the space, okay, you can never just make it about you, just speaking about what you know it has. They have to be in the center of that conversation, and it has to be genuine. Otherwise you can go the other way around, but you are going to see your conversion rate of ask to response really plummeting, really going down. Yes.

47:48 Jim Beach : All right, go ahead and tell us what you know about aliens. Jeremy, go ahead

47:54 Unknown Speaker : And that might be for a different discussion.

47:58 Jim Beach : Do you believe that there is another layer of physics that we don’t understand yet that makes UFOs and all of that possible. It seems to me like there’s a whole nother layer we haven’t figured out yet. What do you think

48:14 Jeremy Gartner : The short the short answer is yes, absolutely. You know, when we were concerned, when I was working at CERN particle physics, there was a whole group over there really studying exotic, exotic particles, meaning all of those particles that belong to the world of science fiction today, particles that travel faster than light, and particles that do this and do that, and things that We don’t know if they are real or not, but yet, there was a real group of scientists, extremely smart people, really checking if the theories can be validated through experiments. And I do believe it’s not just me that believes that that there are still many layers of physics that are still yet to be discovered. And I like the idea actually, of why not? Why would that it be possible that other people, other aliens, or whatever you want to call them, were able already, already to figure them out? And I

49:23 Jim Beach : Forgot the question I wanted to ask, Oh, why has physics stalled? It seems like since the atom in the atomic weapons were invented, that we haven’t had much progress in physics. And I don’t know enough about this to say I’m actually quoting Weinstein. Eric Weinstein, who’s on the internet all the time talking about physics is not advanced in 80 years, 70 years. What are your thoughts on that?

49:55 Jeremy Gartner : I would tend to say that it’s pure bullshit.

49:58 Jim Beach : Oh, really? What has. Oh yeah. Why? Why that?

50:04 Jeremy Gartner : Because, from the Model of particle physics through the understanding of how things work, just look at the technologies around you. Do you see technologies around you evolving or stalling? That’s how you know

50:19 Jim Beach : Driving the exact same car as in 1920 a window, yes, it has more features, the same engine, it was still okay. Question, engine, using gas. The Jetsons TV show promised that we would all be flying around on our own individual saucers by now, I feel like we haven’t advanced very far.

50:44 Jeremy Gartner : If I were to look, for example, at electric vehicles and at Teslas, for example, with all of those self driving features, I would kind of argue otherwise. Don’t you think so?

50:57 Jim Beach : No, we invented the electric car before the combustion engine. They had electric cars in 1905 before they had combustion, we tried electric cars.

51:10 Jeremy Gartner : Okay, it’s true that before that, the physics of electricity was already well known, but technologies derived from those theories were not well understood and well applied yet, which is why, until today, you do see lots of advancement in technologies and lots of research that keeps going on between fusion and again, particle physics. I’m going back now to the very basic of physics, because new discoveries are happening all the time, and from those discoveries, you got lots of new technologies that are being derived from there. So I would actually argue the other way around. We are making huge progresses with maybe not identifying new forces of nature, but on applying technologies, understanding new mechanism that we did not understand before. So lots and lots and lots of new applications, actually, a new understanding of mechanics, of physics do happen all the time. So I’m very passionate about that space? Yeah, no. And I get it. I understand everyone can have their opinion. I just Yeah, I will just tell you a different way about it. I don’t think we are studying at all here.

52:32 Jim Beach : Baker electric invented the electric car in 1899 looked it up. Hear me fascinating, and I love what you’re doing for these executives and teaching them better stories, better strategy, better networking. It’s just a huge gift. I think you need to triple your fees. If you’re at 10 to 20, you should be at 50. So we might,

52:58 Jeremy Gartner : We might go there very, very soon. So anyone that does want jobs, that wants that does want to, you know, ride on that talk that we are building here of career propulsion. It might be the right time before that. Yeah, things keep evolving again.

53:14 Jim Beach : So it’s career propulsion.com right? Anywhere else to get in touch with you?

53:19 Jeremy Gartner : Career propulsion.com, that’s correct. LinkedIn. On LinkedIn, if you do type Dr Jeremy Gartner, you are going to find me. I’m publishing there twice a day. Lots of tips on how to find your next job. Also, from there, you can contact us and see if what we do is going to be the right fit for you. So those would be the main sources to kind of connect with us. Excellent.

53:45 Jim Beach : Thank you so much. Dr Gardner, great, great, great information, and we’d love to have you back. Thank you so much.53:52 Unknown Speaker : Thank you so so much. Jim, bye, bye. Everyone.